Al,
I was thinking the same thing. Also, even though I wasn't there my first impression of the incident is that the dog dealt with Adrian the same way he deals with the owner. The owner probably lets the dog get his way if he mouths her hand. If the dog knows that it will work on the owner, why not a stranger/acquaintence?

Howard

I have to admit I never gave a second thought to any children around the dog, don't or never had any myself. You guys are right though, a dog not under control around children can be a disaster waiting to happen.
Pay it mind Adrain.

To your question of the door instance. Was the dog heading out for something out behind you? Or going after you?
Your op sounded like you were blocking the dog from bolting after something beyond the porch.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

I am following this thread through guys. I cannot possibly put a pinpoint comment about this dog's temperament since I did not see the whole thing happen with my own eyes and might give Adrian the wrong advice. Having said that, with the concsious mouthing - the dog is trying to manipulate the situation by the use of its mouth - the mouth as a tool to have its way. Very typical for this breed. The bite and release sequence. Will it turn into a bite..? Possible. I agree with everyone - obedience training but the main issue is pack structure. Boy I wish we're in the same time zone guys. I really love this site. Anyway, I hope you got some points from this thread Adrian. All the best mate.

Yeah yeah,
I've been rather waiting for Adrian to chime back in as well.

The op wants to know about what kind of aggression the dog was showing.
Well we need to know if it was redirected flustration, or straight ahead at him.

As far as the dog outlook on life; it's obviously a spoiled brat and the owners need to step up to the plate.

If my dog isn't learning, I'm doing something wrong.
Randy

 Quote: adrian donohue

. . .I've interacted with him a bunch of times and he does not seem overly aggressive or nasty in any way. He is big though and his owner does not seem to have control of him. I definitely get the feeling that the dog calls the shots in the house at least while the wife is around. . . He's around strange kids when my neighbor brings him out and I've never seen him act in a threatening way but he's never calm on the leash. . .

I think the other posters have already given all the good advice. I didn't feel any necessity to add my own "me too" but the part you wrote above scared me thinking about the potential risk to any children around this dog. There are too many negative aspects that shout "watch out" - the owners are relatively clueless, wife can't handle him, the dog is essentially out of control, etc., etc. I don't know the age of the kids involved, but even if yours and the owners kids are o.k. with the dog. all it takes is one "innocent" move or one jerk kid and someone will bet a big a$$ bite.

Get the owners to at least look at Ed's articles here about kids and dog bites. Maybe that'll be some extra incentive for them to work on groundwork and obedience.

Mike

"To your question of the door instance. Was the dog heading out for something out behind you? Or going after you?
Your op sounded like you were blocking the dog from bolting after something beyond the porch."

Hi All, sorry, I was away for the weekend. Thanks tons for all of the advice. The dog was not coming out after me. He did initally bark at me thru the door but was not trying to "get at me" as he came out. There was no one on the street, accept that my car was parked out there and was running. He may have been interested in that. He was trying to bolt thru the door to get outside which I think is normal behavior for him in his house.

I got the owners e-mail address. I'll forward this thread to her. Hopefully she'll log in and ask some questions and you guys will be able to get a better feel for the situation overall. I feel that if you have a working breed dog this site is mandatory reading so either way, her viewing the forum is a step in the right direction.

Thanks again for all the interest.

 Quote: adrian donohue

Do you think that for me as basiclly a stranger to the dog, that I should back out of his space? As I said, I have a tendancy to be friendly to him when she has him out. Am I crossing his "family" boundry by doing that? I hadn't realized that he was three and so is more or less an adult Shepherd now. I thought he was two and tended to treat him in more of a puppy or young dog sort of way. Maybe that's not appropriate for an older more mature Shepherd that is a stranger to me.

Also, can I get some opinions on this bit specifically. Thanks.

Honestly?

No. It really sounds to me like the dog was probably a painfully adorable puppy, and as a result, was never really taught good manners by his owners.

He's just obnoxious.

It not taught otherwise, a German Shepherd will happily use his mouth to explore everything in his environment. They're mouthy dogs.

He's just a little rude and needs some pack-structure injected into his life. He's never really learned how to act.

I have to admit I wondered when I first read this if the dog mouthed out of curiousity/excitement. I give Luc (my male GSD) my hand to mouth, though I would never do this with my other 2 dogs.

In my humble opinion, as long as you are reasonably sure of your personal safety, you do not need to accept rude pack behaviour from any dog. When two new dogs meet, if one dog (pup) is rude the other will put it in its place and establish boundaries very quickly.

However, you must be sure of your safety, and do not pick fights or do this with a dog that might attack you or try to be dominant. If ther is ANY doubt that the dog is dominant, or might retaliate to a show of dominance on your part, play it safe!

It sounds like you have corrected the dog before and he has accepted your corrections. If this is the case, and you feel comfortable, you can (with the owner's permission and assistance) correct him for rude behaviour toward you. HOWEVER... if you do not know the dog's temperament, it is possible to overcorrect, and frighten the dog, or undercorrect and show him that your corrections are meaningless.

I think the best thing would be for the owner of the dog to seek professional assistance to train her dog to be better behaved. He sounds like a good dog that just has owners that do not know how to acheive compliance in their pet. The dog will be MUCH happier when he knows what is expected of him.