Since Lucy is a senior Jo, no matter which collar you use I would walk her without slack in the leash. I walk our English Setter whos older like that. There's a kind of balance of the tension that has her technically always at the end of the leash.

Your not dragging her around or anything, but she doesnt get that chance to jump out to the end of the line and get that rough correction that starts the coughing.

 Quote: jo harker

(But he also had a flat collar just in case the dog was stupid and would back off). He would've been the first to approve of prongs.

That should read ..."was stupid and wouldn't back off".

Steve, I can see what you mean and I will try to get that done. That said, she is a sweetie most of the time, and I let my guard down, her nose hits something and she's off! My fault entirely. We are working on heeling but not sure if hounds can.

What you say is good and it would be a saver of injuries. Thanks.

The prong is really easy to work with on pulling, I was scared to death of using on Yote as young as I did, but it was a miracle LOL

I just pay close attention to when he is about to hit the end of the leash and say easy, if he doesn't ease up then the collar corrects him when he hit the end of the leash and I stop moving forward, then as soon as he stops pulling I say yes and we start moving again.

After a month or so of that he learned that easy meant stop pulling or a correction was coming and he rarely hits the end of the leash.

Now it never takes more than me saying easy and giving the leash the slightest pop, not even enough to tighten the collar.

I never felt bad about the prong, because it meant he got long fun walks and also because when I get it out he gets really excited.

 Quote: Tanith Wheeler

Run your hand firmly up and down her throat, apply a small amount of pressure - if there is an injury or something that should evoke the same response.

I did as you suggested. No response except to almost purr. So, conclusion is no injury or bruising.

 Quote: steve strom

Since Lucy is a senior Jo, no matter which collar you use I would walk her without slack in the leash. I walk our English Setter whos older like that. There's a kind of balance of the tension that has her technically always at the end of the leash.

Your not dragging her around or anything, but she doesnt get that chance to jump out to the end of the line and get that rough correction that starts the coughing.

I decided to pay attention to how I was walking. When she would be released (20 ft. line, no outside recall yet, just casual walk and sniff), I would 'reel' her in, pivot with about 7 feet of line, then walk away from her with her following. She would then have time to get up a full head of steam...and hit the end of the lead. So, instead of reeling, I sliding down the lead, taking up slack until I am within 4 feet of her. I then get her attention, place my right hand--with the extra line--down by my thigh and the left fist down by my left thigh, but behind and pivot. She then has to follow. The collar D ring is on the side of her neck instead of on top and she walks with her shoulder at knee--slightly tight line--or with her cheek at my knee--loose line. Seems to be working at keeping her from choking. When the line is loose I praise, when tight I ignore. I am going to start a recall training. She is beginning to come back to me voluntarily when sniffing and when I just casually say her name. Thanks Steve for your advice. It made me rethink and replay how I was walking and see that I am at fault. I will still see if I can get her to heel or if I will actually need a prong.

 Quote: Jennifer Lee

The prong is really easy to work with on pulling, I was scared to death of using on Yote as young as I did, but it was a miracle LOL

I just pay close attention to when he is about to hit the end of the leash and say easy, if he doesn't ease up then the collar corrects him when he hit the end of the leash and I stop moving forward, then as soon as he stops pulling I say yes and we start moving again.

After a month or so of that he learned that easy meant stop pulling or a correction was coming and he rarely hits the end of the leash.

Now it never takes more than me saying easy and giving the leash the slightest pop, not even enough to tighten the collar.

I never felt bad about the prong, because it meant he got long fun walks and also because when I get it out he gets really excited.

Jennifer, if I do have to go to a prong, this experience of yours will be very helpful to help Lucy. Thank you.

Angela, thanks for the information about harness vs prong and talking to Leerburg sales. I really appreciate it!

Jo,

I have prongs for my two GSDs, and they are very appropriate for these dogs. They are quality collars bought from Leerburg. I used to use a prong for our mini Eskie as well, as he was wild on the leash. He did learn to walk more calmly, but he hacked. The vet recommended a halter for this dog, and we bought one at a local store. No more hacking. Some dogs may be poorly suited to a prong, not because it is a bad collar, but from the dog's anatomy. I would check with a vet. It should be posible to train the dog to walk calmly with a halter. Also, I seem to recall that some dogs hack due to complications from rotting teeth, so check the teeth as well.

Polly

Thanks Polly. So far, checking her teeth isn't an option. She will not let me near her muzzle. I am trying to marker train her to allow me to do that. I didn't know hacking could be caused by bad teeth, but it does make some sense.

I also didn't know about the anatomy and prong. That is something else to look into. Thanks!

As to the halter, a friend of mine has 3 huskies who pull. We walk two of them in public and in halties. We may be doing it wrong, or she hasn't worked with them over the years, but the halties do nothing for them. I now walk the sedate husky (oxymoron I know) and let my friend fight the other two.

I am not sure I would use the halter correctly. Even the Petco trainer doesn't recommend them and won't teach how to use them in his class. The only thing he says is if they bolt, drop the leash or have two leashes, one connected to the halter and one to the flat collar.

I will consider and research all options, information, suggestions, etc. offered and talk to the vet also. Then, I will see which I will go with. I appreciate the knowledge on this board and I know I will get and have gotten great advice and information for Lucy. I am totally smitten with this girl and really look forward to working with her. She is so enthusiastic! (Photo notwithstanding...:grin

Halties work VERY well, for a very short period of time.

I've had success working rescue dogs in a combo of a haltie and a prong collar.

I finally had to discontinue my voluteered training after they insisted I not use the prong and only use the haltie, on a DOG AGGRESSIVE 90lb Rottie Mix. (6 months later, they still haven't had any improvement... gee, I wonder why?)

Eventually, most dogs learn that they CAN pull in a haltie, if they change the way they pull.

An effective way of using the haltie that I found, was to run the leash under the dogs front leg (armpit), a la tracking style, so when the dog does try to pull, their nose is pulled down and to the side, dramatically.

Like I said, halties can work for a short period of time- BUT most dogs eventually learn that they can pull anyway, and a dog can injure their neck if they lunge.

Just my .02.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

I finally had to discontinue my voluteered training after they insisted I not use the prong and only use the haltie, on a DOG AGGRESSIVE 90lb Rottie Mix.

victoria stillwell (?) the dog lady did it... but I think their Halties are different. They look more like hackamores. Different pressure than ours I think.

No, seriously, having Hambone has convinced me that using a haltie on a dog aggressive dog wouldn't work. Not unless you used something else in combination. He had a flat collar and a British slip lead on whenever we were around (and are around) strange dogs. ( and he only weighs 36 pounds. )

 Quote: Jo Harker

victoria stillwell (?) the dog lady did it...

Yeah... I'd love to see follow-ups with the dogs she works with after 6 months, and then again at a year.

Of course, any failure of the dog to change would be blamed on the owner's failure to follow the program, not on the quality (or lack thereof) of the original methods used.

Wow, shockingly, I was just checking up on Shep (the dog) http://search.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=11555956

They're sending him to Canyon Crest... oh gee, but I was too hard on him?

Ron Pace is an old school, Koehler kinda guy.

But I was too hard.

Geez. Poor Shep.