Good post LaneGirl but I want to point one thing out to newcomers. I do not recommended taking your puppy to obedience classes. Motivational or not. That is not the proper learning environment. Alone in a familiar environment such as your kitchen is the best place to start. Later when you are ready for distraction testing you can join a group. But only after he performs each exercise 3 times correctly (Tome Rose and Ed are big on the 3 rule) in a row should distraction be introduced. This was not meant as a put down to you. I only used this opportunity to educate others.

Lanegirl hit on a good point. Sometimes these dogs just need time to mature. Some do faster than others. Its amazing how sometimes right around 2 years old something finally clicks and the dog will look at you as if it were saying "Oh... THATS what you wanted me to do!!" With my Lab, it seemed like she instantly changed. Almost overnight!

Well this is how I view obedience classes.....its for the handler, not the dog!!! I never expected my dog to perform a command he just learned. I like obedience classes for the socialization and for me to learn how to teach my dog! But you are right, for a puppy or young dog to be expected to learn in that environment is unreasonable. It should be viewed as a handler course for beginners since most people don't even know where and how to start training. I had the books but still didn't understand many of the more advanced concepts like the "finish" the left/right turn in heeling.....etc. I think the classes are great with the right expectations and instructor!

I still do pet dog obed group classes, albeit reluctantly. People have the idea that it's the best way to train/socialize (they really should not have waited till the pup was 8 mos old to start socializing), and the vets *always* refer people to the groups. I do caution clients, tho that it's a lot like taking your kids to an In Sync (or whomever) concert, sitting them down and telling them: *Now you're going to learn algebra!*
What I would like to do is take the pet dog people thru private lessons first and use the group to proof it up.
If you're raising a working pup, I think you need to use much more caution where you socialize, if you can find a Sch club, or other protection sport training group, they will be less likely to attempt to dominate the pup.

I find a lot of the time when staring to build drive in a young dog, that although the dog is keen for the prey item, be it the ball or tug, in the back yard, the distraction of the park is over whelming, I like to put the dog on a tie out, get him crazy for the prey & then put the prey away, not giving it to him, I do this for few days then try him in the park again, I find he will jump over other dogs to finally get that damn thing!

Vince--
"I have to admit I am spoiled in that my last three dogs were Leerburg dogs. Drive is the least of my problems. My first Leerburg dog Rabiat attacked me for the ball knocking me over and swallowed it whole."

Just for clarification, you see this wild desire for the ball as a good thing?

And if this is true, it is good because the dog will do ANYTHING for you in order to get the ball?

Thanks

Kevin:

My dog can never have too much drive. You can always reduce drive but you can not build something that is not there. Now nothing comes without its disadvantages. One must be cautious of locking a dog into prey. I spend the first 10 months of a pups life building drive. If I correct a dog 5 times in those 10 months I would be surprised.

Vince

While you are building drive during those 10 months are you working on anything else? Obedience, tracking, etc.

All this talk about killing and/or diminishing drive has me a little skittish. As I stated in another post, all of my experience is with Labs. Oftentimes they're doing blind retrieves by 1yr old, but the consensus on this forum and other things I've read is to basically socialize and motivational obedience only till 10-12 months.

Do I have that right?

Chris--

You have it right according to many on this board. However, I disagree. Just as kids begin to learn as soon as they are born, dogs are very impressionable at a young age. Some might would say this is why you don't correct at this age, because they are impressionable. But this is a great time to teach the dog. You certainly don't correct a pup with the same harshness you do an adult. But I am all for starting a pup at a young age with praise for good behavior and a correction for bad behavior. If you have a good dog who is genetically sound, this will not cause any problems. In fact it will make the training of your dog much easier. I have a female malinois that is not quite five months old and she will heel, sit, stay, jump, and she will do short tracks (100-200yards in tall grass). She is also learning the "find it" very well. I have never used any toys or food in her training, nor will I.
As for a dog with so much drive that it will knock you down and swallow a ball, I can't agree with that. If either of my dogs jumped on me in that manner, they would be corrected. I'm sure Vince will disagree with what I have said, but I have found it to be true. I don't expect you to just believe me because I said it, but think about it yourself. Does this make sense?

I guess it all depends on what your plans for your dog are. If you were using your dog for sport or service, I guess you would be ecstatic if your dog had that kind of drive. As a pet though, I would definately have to get the dog to take a chill! Just my opinion as my experience is more in training a pet than a sport dog.