Sometimes with Children, just as with dogs, no means no and that is it.

I agree with Jennifer. I tell people they can't pet my dogs all the time (again, except for Teagan....Randy's the only one who wants to pet her), and I don't have to give a reason.

It's not bad to give a reason, if you want to, but in that situation, you're not required to justify yourself. Even to a toddler. It's up to the parent to manage the toddler's emotions/reactions, in my childless opinion

I was thinking, Lindsay, Roo isn't as big as Teagan, but if you put a big Hannibal Lector-style muzzle (it's a fighting muzzle) on Roo, problem solved - nobody'll come near you!

Lindsay, i wouldn't feel badly. IMO you did exactly what needed to be done.
Im sure she cried because she didn't get her way, not because you scared her.
Her parents shouldn't have allowed her to come up to your dog without asking you first if it was ok. For all they knew your dog was there due to a painful condition and we all know how dogs react when they are in pain and are confronted by a stranger
in unfamiliar territory.

If im out with my stepdaughter and she wants to approach a strange dog I ask the owner if it's ok, and I never allow her to approach the dog alone. I go with her and make sure she doesn't hover over the dog or touch/pet too rough. If i go with her I can watch the dog's body language and make sure the dog is fine with her petting. And if the dog is being walked by a child I won't let her pet the dog. I just don't trust a child to be able to control a dog if something happens.

I said more reactive than reasonable at this age, not totally unreasonable....meaning they are still learning...an example in the above situation would of been to tell the child to stay away from the dog (for the child's and dog's protection).....then once the child went back to the parents, say in a kind voice...it is not a good idea to approach a dog you do not know because the dog could hurt you, understand?....hopefully the parents would understand that this is something they should be teaching their child in the future....this is how a toddler becomes reasonable as a child, by explaining things to her/him....if no one explains the reasons behind what you are saying....they never have enough information to become reasonable.......kind of like marker training...the dog learns to think and figure out things for it self instead of being forced in doing things by punishment or fear....Anna

 Quote: Anna Anderson

this is how a toddler becomes reasonable as a child, by explaining things to her/him....if no one explains the reasons behind what you are saying....they never have enough information to become reasonable.......kind of like marker training...the dog learns to think and figure out things for it self instead of being forced in doing things by punishment or fear....Anna

Sure, but just like I don't want someone else training my dogs, it's not my business to do so, or my problem, to ensure reasonability and teaching of someone else's kid.

But I'm getting off of dog talk (slaps self before Connie has a chance to!)

sorry, but a 4 year old child should not be thinking for herself and shouldn't be approaching strange dogs.

And if someone told my step daughter she couldn't pet their dog I wouldn't question them on it. Their dog, their choice. They know their dog better than I do.

I don't offer explanations when I tell someone (child or adult) that they can't pet my dog. As Jen pointed out thats the responsibility of the parent.

I doubt anything Lindsay did caused fear for the little girl. As stated before, more than likely she didn't get what she wanted and threw a little fit.

edit: Jen this post wasn't directed at you, you were just the last poster!!!

Just one more off the subject, subject...I am not a "politically correct" person...when someone is doing something wrong...I say something...parent or no parent around to handle it...that toddler is our next generation of adults...saying something to teach the child right from wrong is a responsiblity I have no problem with. One needs to handle the person one is handling in a manner that works for that particular person...a toddler is not a child yet...they need to be handled in a way that they understand and can think with....a puppy is not a dog yet, the same applies to them.

If you handle a baby, toddler, child, adult puppy or dog in a way where they actually have learned something from you and can use that information in the future to benefit their decisions and life in a positive way, you would never feel bad. We only feel bad when we instictively know we could of handled the situation better. We have all been there....no shame or regreds..we learn from our mistakes and go on.

 Quote: lindsay janes

I guess I felt kinda bad that I had to make her cry because I said no.

Lindsay, you handled the situation perfect.

"Because I said so" is more than adequate.

Anything more would have sounded like Charlie Brown's school teacher to the child. "Wonk wah, wonk wonk wonk waaahhh."

"WAHHHHHHH!!! BUT UHHHH!!! WHY?!?!", are not valid responses or questions.

If we are going to talk about what kids learn, all you would've done by explaining yourself is teach this kid to cry louder. Thats the problem.

Nobody was unfair here. No degree in psychology needed to interact with kids. This kid was not in a learning state of mind. The only unfair thing would've been to cater to her fit.

Too much thought about feelings instead of parenting. Be firm, be fair. You don't have to be a public liaison to yours or others kids.

You'll know the kids that you can "teach". This wasn't one of them.

 Quote: Doug Alcorn

As a father of 4, I can support your actions. Kids (particularly young ones) often try to cause a scene to get what they want. It's just about all the power they have. Disappointment isn't something that most parents help their kids learn to deal with.

Me 3.

"No" doesn't have to have anger attached to it. Maybe this is some of the confusion. Some can't discipline without being mad, too.

Not the case here or with what I was saying.

Don't want any confusing me with a kid hating puppy beater.

"You'll know the kids that you can "teach". This wasn't one of them."


Michael...YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT? ANY NORMAL 4 YEAR OLD CAN BE TAUGHT ANYTHING, THEY ARE LEARNING SPONGES.

WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A 4 YEAR OLD HERE, not a 14 year old!
4 YEAR OLDS MAY CRY TO GET THEIR WAY WITH THEIR PARENTS, BUT NOT A STRANGER...SHE CRIED BECAUSE SHE FELT VERBALLY ATTACKED BY A STRANGER AND HAD NO "UNDERSTANDING" OF WHY.. SHE WAS NOT CRYING TO GET HER WAY WITH LINSEY TO PET HER DOG....SHE DID NOT UNDERSTAND, THAT IS ALL...NO ONE EVER TAUGHT HER NOT TO PET A DOG SHE DID NOT KNOW OR TO ASK IF a DOG COULD BE PETTED....

In dog training you do not correct a dog that doesn't understand the command, it is not fair to the dog....right? If you need to give a correction, you wouldn't give your dog a correction so hard that you caved in the dog , right? And when do you start even giving a correction to a puppy?

I am not saying that dogs and toddlers are the same, but the rule applies to both...you cannot expect a toddler to understand something that it was never taught...this is a parent error...if the child was crying and being too emotional to listen to the reason why she could not pet the dog, then the parent should of been told the reason to explain to the toddler when she calmed down. (I am hoping this is what you meant by "you'll know the kids you can "teach"). Don't assume that all parents know to teach their kids not to pet dogs they don't know..some parents never had experience with dogs and some parents...well that's another subject.

THIS SUBJECT CAME UP BECAUSE LINSEY FELT BAD...TRYING TO GIVE HER "JUSTIFICATIONS" ON HOW RIGHT SHE WAS IN MAKING THE TODDLER CRY ,WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND HER, WILL NOT MAKE HER FEEL ANY BETTER.....SHE HAS A CONSCIENCE AND A GOOD ONE AT THAT or she would not even of bothered posting this.

Once a parent lets their child into a situation that could hurt the child or a dog and it is your dog, you do have a responsiblity to correct and then handle the situation so that the child and another dog doesn't get hurt in the future...the parent let the child into your space and didn't handle it, so take some responsibility....helping a any toddler or child to understand something so he or she doesn't get hurt in the future is a noble thing to do.