Quote: Carol Galka

I am very very stressed having the dogs all seperated, as my sense is that our family unit is disassembled. we were so used to the dogs doing everything with us, having 3 dogs sleeping in bed with us, etc, and now my husband and I do not even sleep in the same room together...

Crate the dogs at night. They can sleep in their 'dens'. You and your husband can sleep together!!!

I think you may have issues with your two younger dogs being 'doggy' (i.e., their primary social reference is each other, not you or your husband and that this greatly informs their behaviour and their response to you).

I would start tethering the dogs to you when they're out (not all at once, obviously, but whatever dog is out). This will help with your bond, but it will also allow you control over their behaviour and reinforce that it YOU who decides what goes on.

It's never too late to train them, build a bond/leadership, and to work on appropriate behaviour. Training now is important, and will help. Look up articles on marker training as well as leadership/groundwork that are on this site - they are excellent and invaluable.


Edit to add:
Carol, my dogs (I have 3) all get along, and I don't allow them to be out together without my supervision. Even if I'm home, if I'm doing something that requires my attention enough that I can't really monitor them, one of the dogs goes into the dog room (where 2 of my dogs have their crates, but the room itself functions as their area for those times when I can't really properly watch them).

You are using a halti and an e-collar, with no foundation training .... whose idea was that?

How is your husband going to learn how to handle and train if this is what it took to teach him to separate the dogs?

If I were in a situation with the other human completely fighting order and allowing dogs to be attacked and mauled in his home, I would surrender the two Aussies (regardless of the terms, because your home is absolutely not right for them as it is) and I would also remove myself from the foster home list.

I am not trying to be harsh. I am trying to be honest.

This is a terrible situation. I do not see it improving, either. In what world is a house with multiple attacks allowed to continue without separating the dogs a good foster home?

Have you ever read any of the Leerburg articles or watched any of the videos?


Edited by Connie Sutherland (04/30/2009 11:14 AM)
Edit reason: add last line

 Quote: Carol Galka

I am very very stressed having the dogs all seperated.

They're stressed when they're together.
Neither the attackers nor the attackees are happy with life in your home. No dog enjoys constantly worrying about rank, self-preservation and pain.

Severe dog aggression is born out of being attacked by others in the past.

This is why I wish Cesar Milan (who is a fantastic dog trainer) was NOT on television.
He leads people into the misguided conclusion that they too can have a happy pack of dogs.

That isn't reality.

You can't.

If you watch the show, even CESAR has very nasty pack fights from time to time.
And none of us are Cesar.

Dog packs are bad. Period.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

... Crate the dogs at night. They can sleep in their 'dens'.

This almost falls under "duh."

Good catch.

 Quote: Alyssa Myracle

 Quote: Carol Galka

I am very very stressed having the dogs all seperated.

They're stressed when they're together.
Neither the attackers nor the attackees are happy with life in your home. No dog enjoys constantly worrying about rank, self-preservation and pain.

Severe dog aggression is born out of being attacked by others in the past.

Much more succinctly said than my post.

I agree with Connie and Alyssa 110%.

Unless you and your husband have laid very clear groundwork from day 1 second 1 with each and every dog in the household it would be difficult at best to avoid confrontations. Even then, when the "pack" saw you as pack leader that wouldn't stop them from fighting while you were not around.

These dogs need to be separated or re-homed. Re-homed, in my opinion, would be better. That way at least they could enjoy life with a new family and you could keep 2 of them - but you need to do ground work training with those that remain.

JM2C

Another thought.

With all the negative energy in the household - the dogs are responding to that and THAT TOO is making them stressed - THERE IS NO LEADERSHIP. Dogs NEED leadership or they run rampant.

Unless the situation changes and QUICK - this will easily escalate out of control.

My previous post stands - re-home for the benefit of the dogs and the humans involved.

Hi Carol,

I have the same problem with a couple of my dogs- I have 3 male german shepherds major 8, fero 3, sampson 1.5 yrs old. I used to let them all be together since they were young and everything seemed good till sampson starting maturing about 6 months ago then him and fero decided they didnt like each other anymore. There were never any "serious" fights but after a couple confrontations between the two I knew they were going to have to be separated, which is what I have done since then. It is not want I wanted at all but you have to decide if you are willing to do it for the safety of the dogs and if you are not willing to keep them separated you really need to probably rehome the 2 young ones. It definitely takes some getting used to if your not used to separating dogs but I am finally getting used to it after 6 months or so and settling into a routine. I have thought about rehoming Fero-if I thought he would go to a great home and have a great life but there is no guarantee there so I have decided for now to keep him. So there is nothing wrong with trying to find them new homes if you do not want to keep them separated. They do not need to be together-that is our human emotions that think they need to be buddies and hang out with each other. Buy crates for all of them and keep them in there when one is out and rotate when you can and they can sleep in there at night, my dogs do at night. Major doesnt spend alot of time in his crate because he gets along with both other dogs and he doesnt sleep in his crate at night, my other dogs don't care because their dogs and I'm the boss- Good Luck, it is doable.. and I would never let any trainer tell me because my dogs are not getting along they need to be PTS!!!

thank you everyone for your insights. I can certainly see that I have made very bad decisions, and yes, the 2 young dogs have always focused on each other more than on my husband or myself. I have seen alot of progress in a short time as far as them paying attention to me, when they are seperate from each other.
we watch Dog Whisperer, and that is basically where my husband got his info from, and he was determined to be the leader of his pack according to Ceasar's teachings. I did try to tell my husband often that the pups were not listening well, and that we would flunk out if Ceasar was teaching us.
as far as being a foster home any longer, of course that is out of the question now. we were a foster home to Grace, prior to any of the aggression developing. aussie rescue is so desperate for foster homes I guess they did not see us as a "bad" resource for foster dogs. till now, that is.
aussie rescue is saying that I can only rehome if I go through their organization...and they will not allow Cliff to go onto the adoption list without sending him for evaluation. the 2 options they have given us are: 1) a boarding kennel where one of the group's reps will evaluate him and see if he really is dog aggressive 2) a search and rescue trainer who has 2 rotties, a border collie and a belgan Malinois that she is currently rehabing...and Cliff would be added to that household temporairly for evaluation...
Cliff is a couch potato who doesn't even like getting his feet wet and wants to be with his humans constantly. so we have been trying to find an immediate "forever home" on our own and bypass the rescue group, but it is not easy to find a "one dog only" home quickly.
we just purchased 3 more crates, but have not thought of making them be crated all night...since we have never been used to doing that, and thought that we would do more harm to them by making them be crated so much of the time. ok. duh.
you have to realize that the only dog behavior guidance we had was Ceasar Millan's program, and all the dogs seemed to get along ok till recently...we were used to dogs being with us everywhere we went, and loose in the house right under our feet constantly 24/7, so this is a whole new world to me..dogs being crated is a very foreign concept, even though I can now see that it would have been the best thing from the get go.

leadership, crates and kennels

I learnt the hard way