20 weeks, how old is that. I hate math. That's just like saying my son is 41 months old. Let's see is that about four months?

That is one reason I don't like hand signals, I don't use em'. To add a little bit extra help in the begining I just show the reward to the right place, and then as the down or sit get better, all I have to do is flash the prize and that is enough. A progression from bringing their noses to the ground with food to not even rewarding (that often).

As for Captain Correction? PRONG THE HELL OUTA THAT DOG! Just kidding.

You can use some forms of "correction" to help get your point accross. Like pulling down on a regular leash and collar very softly to compel a down. Start saying the DOOOWWWNNN, and in mid stream start pulling the leash down SOFTLY. You won't have to do it that often after Fido gets the hint and you are still "teaching" the command (i.e. rewarding every time, no distractions etc)

Here is a trick if you have the agility/ability to do it. You don't even have to lean down to pull the leash down if you hook the line around and under your foot. Then you can just pull up SOFTLY and dogs head get lead down. Eliminates just another visual cue, during training, that I don't like.

I dig the soft correction on the leash advice. Even on older pups sometimes it is forgotten that a correction dosen't always mean throw a prong on and bombs away.

Thank you Captian.

You don't need to even use a correction collar. I start my puppies on a flat collar for their corrections. It doesn't take a hard correction and it seems to carry over to a gentler correction when you move to a correction collar.

You have taught the dog to down but not to stay. Ideally, the dog should automatically stay until the next command is issued. This is only a 7 month old puppy though and it is a good idea to work this down thing into a down-stay thing. Have you worked on the stay?

no, i have not worked on the stay, and i guess i have already made a mistake by allowing the dog to not wait for the next command.

ideally what should i have done, secondly how would you approach the situation created by my lackluster start?

The addition of a release command such as FREE or OK! ... I prefer free as it doesn't tend to come up in conversation much and with good voice inflection it kinda sounds like WHEE! this is fun! mom is COOL! (only my dog thinks this, but that is ok) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When first teaching the command it is sit, dog sits, split second, Free! then you can begin to extend the amount of time slowly. By adding the FREE! command the dog knows when he is allowed to break the position.

In addition to the free I try and do something the dog REALLY likes. Throw a ball, play tug, run, let the dog jump up for hugs, whatever flips the dogs switch...

After all he should be happy, he made you happy.

He needs to want to stay in anticipation of the reward. I'd put the dog on a leash, place him in a down. Command him to stay. Place a treat or a toy on the floor a few feet in front of him while saying stay. If he goes after the treat before you release him stop him, put him back where he was and command him to stay. After a couple of times he will get the message. You then gradually extend the amount of time he has to wait for the treat. Since the reward is at ground level, he will be focused on it and will likely stay in the down position. Remember I am trying to stay all positive here since you stated that the dog has not had work done with the stay. Once the dog solidly understands the command you can then give Captain correction a call.

Thanks abunch both chuck and Snauzergirl, i will start tommorrow, What i have done (wrongly) is conditioned the dog to think that when it gets the "prize" it is simultaneously released, and what I need to do now is increase the time between down and reward, and ad a verbal que for release.

This has been very helpful, DJ

Of course I should mention that the goal is to have the dog focus on you and eventually the treat comes off the floor and on you to accomplish this. You can start this gradually after he starts to get the hang of this by getting on your knees and grabing the treat then holding it waste level, then chest level, ect.

I teach this a bit differently. I will use food to get the dog in the down position.. when I reward I put the food on the floor between the dogs paws.. instead of correcting a young dog for getting up.. I reward him for staying down. I do this by having 4 or 5 pieces of food in my hand.. get the dog into the down position.. and while he is down.. i reward with a piece of food inbetween the front paws on the floor.. as I feed, i remind the pup..down. When all the food is gone.. i release the pup. You need to make sure you do not leave your food hand dangling in front of the pup.. he will likely start to crawl toward it.. I find that in a relatively short amount of time I am able to stand up..move about..stepping in now and then to reward with food.. on the floor...

Very quickly I am going to get the food in the hand out of the picture. I will start by moving my hand(with the food) to a point just below the dogs nose.. this will cause him to dip his head. I will wait.. and wait.. not saying anything.. if 10 seconds goes by.. I will start again... very soon he will realize that to get that treat he has to go into a down position. Lots of praise and feed.. when he is dropping quickly like this.. I do it with no food in the hand.. as soon as he hits the deck I will feed with the other hand.. this shows him that just because there is no food showing.. doesn't mean there isn't a treat. Hope this helps to get you started.

Jody

I'm with Jody on this one. There's no need for corrections at all at this point. If a pup has grasped the concept of doing down, either with or without a lure (food in the hand), it's easy to get him doing it without the lure and for longer periods. A guy in our club was at this stage with his 6 mo old last week. Pup went down great with a food lure. We faded the hand prompt to only going part way to the ground, and of course the pup balked. This is where everyone gives up - but all you need is about 20-30 seconds of patience. He repeated the platz and held the hand steady. The pup tried several behaviors to see what was going to work - we ignored it. Finally, he slowly went down and the instant his elbows hit the ground, "yes" and reward. We steadily faded the hand prompt and simply outwaited the pup each time when he balked (we're only talking about 30 seconds here). If he had refused to down and had walked away, we would have simply ignored him - no reward for failure to offer the behavior, but no correction either. But that never happened. Two days later, the pup goes down without any hand motion at all. Now we lengthened the time required. He told him to down and when his elbows hit, he spoke softly and calmly "good platz, good pup, YES!" So we got a few seconds out of him. Next time longer. If he gets up before we release, no reward and we start over. As it gets longer, he will feed the dog in the down position, but only if the dog holds the down while he eats it. If he gets up, no reward. It's very simple, extremely effective, and very pleasant for the dog.