How possible is it to "socialize" older dogs, especially when they have some problems?

I think I feel where you are heading with this one VanCamp. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I think with older dogs it's not so much a socialization thing as much as it is teaching the dog that aggression towards another dog IS NOT TOLERATED. Socialization is much more feasible with a puppy but once a dog is older it's damn tough to break them through just positive socialization. I've had dogs who wouldn't go after another dog ONLY because the wrath of yours truly would pour out on them.....not because I successfully taught them to like other dogs by letting them hang out with other dogs.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

 Quote:

How possible is it to "socialize" older dogs, especially when they have some problems?

Perhaps a better way to put it is that in our club we teach the dogs to BE "social" (or else!).
With a couple of the older, really aggressive ones it takes a while, but eventually the message gets across.
Form a large circle....dogs are put in a down...corrected if he/she locks on...when all is quiet, everyone moves a few steps inward...repeat process.

The hard cases will find themselves outside the schrinking circle for several sessions, until they too can tolerate the closeness of other dogs.
I guess the only question I have on this process is does the dog extrapolate this acceptance to other dogs? Or does he/she just learn to tolerate the ones in the club...?

I took a rather spooky female to group obedience for the sole reason that she would have to tolerate the vicinity of other dogs and HUMANS as I dictated when she was in harness(leash). It also taught her that strange humans could be in her vicinity and would recognize her existence, and then ignore her. This situation is a lot better than people usually try (wrongly) to approach a spooky dog - loudly cooing "you poor thing!!! and making direct eye contact and advancing on them. Also, some dogs are never going to be dog social but that is no excuse for tolerating dog aggression. There are some dogs you are never going to want to get in the direct
contact with another dog, but I think they have to learn it is controlled by your say so. They don't have to be "social" but they don't have to act like a butt-head either. If people(and their dogs) are getting a little too close for comfort it is completely acceptable to say "not so close
please" and gauge proximity in accordance with your dogs social skills - so dogs are always going to need more room! I think puppies have to learn that not every dog is there to play with them. I would say that socialization is less about interacting with other dogs and more about displaying some "social graces" whether you like it or not.

When they are still puppies (under a year old), sometimes what is perceived as dog aggression is only a dog announcing itself and wanting to play with the other dogs.
One thing that can be done is go somewhere like Petsmart or where there are numerous dogs and just walk the isles, put a spike collar on the dog and correct it when it barks and lunges. Within about 30 min. the dog will react differently towards the other dogs.

Tim

Okay here's the thing.... I don't want to do schutzhund because I have two small boys and since I've already taught my dogs the "NO BITE" command I feel it maybe not for them. I am more interested in agility, herding (but I don't have access to cattle or sheep so...), and I also think fly ball is pretty cool. So, I think the AKC titles are more in the line of what I'm going for.
I understand that at this age the "SOCIALIZATION" I am referring to is more "TOLERANCE" than anything else and that is exactly what I'm trying to achieve with him. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

He does great on our walks so, maybe it won't be as difficult as I think it will be. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I guess the best thing for me to do is take him to the AKC club of choice without giving them any background information (of course he would be on lead/choker). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Tim, I took him to Petsmart awhile back and that was when I finally realized he had a small problem. That's when I purchased the choke chain also. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Maybe if I took him back now (after training him) he won't do what he did before. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

NO, NO, NO I didn't mean it that way Mike. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Schutzhund is awesome and I agree you can have a Schutzhund titled dog around kids....that wasn't what I was getting at. I was trying to say that since I have two small boys and I've already taught the "NO BITE" command it would be difficult to go backwards. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Not that doing bite work would be going backwards....just not where I want to go...ya know what I'm trying to say? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

(I have open mouth, insert foot disease) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />