The stairs are closed in. It's crappy flooring, but just like the stairs at our old house, they are closed in (old house was wood though, though the flooring type he's been on before).

He'll actually go up gapped stairs.

Here he is on one gapped: http://picasaweb.google.ca/nuneons/TemagamiSeptember2008#5284901529234194962

Although that's really more a pic of Teagan, but.

Lynne, I was thinking (Jo suggested something very similar) of going into the stairs with Neb and having the door open for Luc to watch.

Since Luc climbs stiles, I don't think its the stairs. What else can you think that might be it...is he claustrophobic? Could that be an affectation here?

Is it possible that he was stung by a bee or some other random thing while in that area? It doesn't sound like it's the stairs so much as an association with that particular area.

I would probably do as previously suggested: Have him go up and down the steps with another dog.

I'm kind of a meanie and would tend to take an "oh get over it" sort of attitude about it and just insist that he do it. Then reward him for his courage with a treat immediately after. I know Luc is a soft soul though and that approach may be too much.

Maybe he is claustrophobic. Huh. It's fairly bright given the back door is there, but. It is an enclosed space. Interesting....

Kristel, maybe.....

That's sort of the approach I took when I made him go through 10 days ago. But he is a soft soul and I would like him to do it on his own, it's not like a big deal that I have to have him do it, so I don't want to force him. I'll try hanging out in there w/Neb and see how he does.

The funny thing is he'll sleep against the door from our side, in the house. And if my brother's out back having a smoke (sigh) standing next to the back door, he'll run over to say high.

 Quote: kristel smart

I'm kind of a meanie and would tend to take an "oh get over it" sort of attitude about it and just insist that he do it. Then reward him for his courage with a treat immediately after. I know Luc is a soft soul though and that approach may be too much.

Yea, if I had thought of everything it might be and couldn't make it comfortable for the dog I might take this approach too. Of course, it kinda depends on how important it is to you. For me, having the dog comfortable going in the basement is a must. Based on your setup, maybe this really isn't that big of a deal for Luc to get over. Is it OK to have a known phobia for your dog that's just not worth fixing?

Edit: seems like we posted at about the same time with about the same response!

My Lucy is terrified of the dark...to keep her in her crate without a light on meant that in the morning, what came out of that crate wasn't a dog. I never did that to her again.

She sleeps in my room near me on the floor. On the nights the power is out and there is no light at all, she is allowed on my bed to be able to touch me.

Why my little girl is so terrified of the dark and being enclosed with no escape (and all alone), I do not want to speculate. I will not try to make her get over this phobia. Destroying her to make her "not" afraid isn't worth it.

By the way, I don't think Luc is this bad.

 Quote: jennifer mullen

I didn't realize how stubborn he was about this until about 10 days ago. I was helping Steve move something downstairs from outside. Luc was with us and when I called Luc to come in through the back door, he hesitated, looked at it, and then tucked his tail between his legs and ran around to the front. I did go get him, bring him back, and shove him through the door and he ran upstairs.

...

Last night I was talking to Steve in the stairwell, so I got some high value treats and tried luring Luc over. Didn't really work. He went almost to the edge of the stairs, got one treat, but wouldn't go any further. I set a treat down on each stair, and encouraged him. He sniffed over the edge, looked at me (with what I like to call the 'Luc look' - it's like a mix of 'ARE YOU CRAZY LADY?!' with 'AUGH!'), and then backed away back into my part of the house and sat down about 2M away, slightly turned away but every so often turning his head to give me a horrified look.

I had a similar issue with Kaiser and stairs down to the basement from inside the house and from outside the house. No issues with stairs leading to the upstairs only to the basement.

Initially I was thinking it was because it was darker and he couldn't see the bottom.

So, I finally got him over the hurdle but it took MANY days.

I started like you using some high value treats - that, like you, got him to the edge and that was it.

**Edit

 Quote:

I would probably do as previously suggested: Have him go up and down the steps with another dog.

I tried this with my other dog and Kaiser watching. All that happened was that Kaiser would bark at the other dog like "What the hell are you doing!".


So, I took his FAVORITE tug toy one day and we walked to the edge and I began walking down the stairs while holding his toy. He came to the edge, then I moved the toy to the next step just out of his reach, after about 20 minutes he took a step and grabbed it. I let him have it and run away with it.

Same process next day but one step more.

Eventually he didn't care about the stairs anymore and now goes freely up and down.

Maybe something like that will help you.

Edited by Peter Marek (06/05/2009 10:49 AM)
Edit reason: added commentary

For some reason the first thing that popped in my mind was the Ceasar Millan episode with Kane the great dane. Maybe you could use inertia to get him going into the starewell before he has a chance to think about how much he hates it. Could using rewards when he is already uncertain be reinforcing the fear?

Maybe.....I don't want to shut Luc down though, and it wouldn't be that hard to do. I like Cesar Millan, but I've seen at least one episdoe where he got a dog onto a surface he didn't like (in a school) and the dog didn't look....like I want Luc too. Not a slam against Cesar Millan, just a thought.

Peter, it's not dark, but maybe it does feel enclosed to him. It doesn't seem anymore enclosed than the bottom of the stairs at our old apartment, and that was how we got in and out. Dunno.

I think I will keep trying with high-value stuff. Heh, maybe I'll stick a chicken back down there for him tomorrow morning! Unfortunately Luc does not play with toys (it's exciting if I can get him to put his mouth around a toy), so that's out. Maybe Neb being comfy with it combined with keeping up with the high value treats....