 Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: steve strom ]
#249319 - 08/06/2009 10:22 PM |
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steve, OK I have to ask. Why did you raise his urine pH? Medical issue? I did manage to find info that generally, struvite crystals exist only in alkaline urine. So now I have to figure out why it's alkaline. The vet thought diet but I'm not so sure.
Anyway... if she does have an infection I wonder how long she's had it... she has no UTI symptoms that I can tell. Poor thing. I did mention to the vet that the other dogs had been sniffing at her rear end... I thought maybe anal glands but maybe this was a symptom?
What is a "sterile urine" culture? Can I collect a sample or does sterile mean they do it with a needle?
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#249335 - 08/07/2009 06:29 AM |
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With my cat who regularly got struvite crystals and stones, the sterile urine culture was gotten by inserting a needle directly into his bladder and drawing out urine. (NOT a happy kitty).
We did finally decide bacteria (FIV kitty at that) was the cause of his struvites. On and off prescription diets, we finally wet to prophylactic antibiotics...he would take antibiotics at a set interval (can't remember now how often or not often) and that pretty much took care of his problem. We went that way because I noticed that when he WAS on antibiotics (for a different reason) he peed freely and completely. So, easy fix for us.
Something to think about, if necessary.
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#249340 - 08/07/2009 07:55 AM |
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Last year Andy's prostate enlarged and he was having trouble peeing. Turns out he has a rare condition and formed cystine bladder stones. They can only form in acidic urine.
I'm not an authority on it, but I can't believe that what you are feeding would lead to alkaline urine. Maybe your vet isnt familiar with Orijen?
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#249364 - 08/07/2009 11:32 AM |
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.. UTI? should I have a culture done?
Yes.
QUOTE: Struvite crystals are most often caused by urinary tract infections. Bacteria create an alkaline environment which causes struvites to grow and flourish. Treating the urinary tract infection will cause the struvites to go away. The best way to treat them is to have your veterinarian do a sterile urine culture. This will be cultured at a laboratory, which will name the bacteria and also tell which antibiotic(s) will be the most effective. Using the correct antibiotic for at least a month and then retesting ten days off the antibiotic should take care of this problem. No diet change is needed nor will help. END from
Lew Olson at http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/?s=urine+culture
Connie, what about vitamin C to help make the urine more acidic?
Obviously, treat the infection since that is the source of the whole problem anyway. But would vitamin C help get rid of the existing crystals?
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Michael_Wise ]
#249377 - 08/07/2009 11:48 AM |
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Also, what I have read when I had Rikki, a high magnesium diet can contribute to struvite. wonder what the magnesium level of your food is?
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Michael_Wise ]
#249385 - 08/07/2009 12:07 PM |
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I don't know, Michael.
From Manual of Nephrology by Schrier:
"Struvite stones are also known as infection stones" and that they occur only from "infection by urea-splitting organisms that secrete urease."
The same book says that only a small percentage of stones really are struvites, which was why I asked about the diagnosis.
I don't know enough to know whether some vets lump the various types of stone together, or confuse the types, or what. I do know enough (I think) to be sure that infection is the almost-always cause of real struvite crystals/stones and that GP vets don't always know this.
From http://easytospot.blogs.com/easy_to_spot/2009/01/struvites-crystals-urinary-tract-infections-treatment-and-diet.html
Often, a glance by the veterinarian at the urine specimen under a microscope won’t always show bacteria. At this point, the health care professional will suggest a change of diet to help change the pH of the urine, and perhaps prescribe a week to ten days supply of antibiotics. ... There is a problem with this common treatment. It misunderstands how struvites develop and how urinary tract infections almost always accompany them. ... there is no special diet, or commercial diet that will prevent or treat struvites or UTI’s. But dogs prone to these problems need the best nutrition possible."
It's true that there are two types of canine struvites: infection-induced and sterile. I have never actually seen a history of or read about an actual case of sterile struvites, it's so uncommon. Infection-induced struvite is often associated with urease-producing staphylococcal UTIs.
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#249388 - 08/07/2009 12:11 PM |
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On her urinalysis results, it did say something beside bacteria. I don't have it in front of me right now but it was something like "+ cocci (something) movement" - however, I believe a culture is needed to see if there is any bacteria/infection. Right?
And for the culture can I just take a sample in?
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Angela Burrell ]
#249389 - 08/07/2009 12:11 PM |
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#249398 - 08/07/2009 12:29 PM |
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http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=2+1662&aid=712
"In the case of bladder infections, as in human medicine, we believe that vitamin C is unusual in that it is excreted unchanged totally via the kidneys, and it therefore, acidifies the urine. This makes the bladder a much less hospitable place for bacteria to live. Most of the bacteria that cause cystitis (bladder infection) survive much better in environments that have an alkaline pH. Therefore, by acidifying the urine with vitamin C, these organisms are often eliminated. This is the reason many women are told to drink large quantities of cranberry juice by their doctors when they have cystitis."
"Vitamin C has been used with varying degrees of success in helping prevent the formation of some bladder stones in dogs and cats. The vitamin C makes the urine more acidic and maintaining an acid urine helps discourage the creation of most stone types."
I had seen it mentioned on the above site before.
Not replacement for treatment of the bacteria now, but I wasn't sure if it would help with treatment or not.
Not treat, but maybe help prevent later on if the dog is prone to this kind of thing.
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Re: Struvite crystals
[Re: Michael_Wise ]
#249400 - 08/07/2009 12:32 PM |
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Ah. Yes, for humans, prevention is often centered around both OJ and cranberry: one makes the bladder less hospital to bacteria and one keeps bacteria from sticking to the walls.
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