You will probably want to teach the loose-leash walk as I described above, then, with releases. (You're correcting way late, and you're "on the road" with the walk way early.)

Again, this is something that I start in a no-distraction place. I can start the walk-work in the living room (and I have done this). If people are in the L/R, then the bedroom. Just head off there, you and the dog and some HV rewards.

http://www.clickerlessons.com/looseleash.htm

http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&q=clicker+train,+heel&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=b3yASuSAKZDUtgOUwqzvCg&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4#

The second video is the one I looked at; it's a formal focus-on-you heel, but the basic teaching method is the same.

You're correcting at the wrong time!!!!

And you are expecting too much from this little guy distraction wise.

Be fair, if you haven't worked with him on low level distractions
how can you expect him to respond to high level distractions?
Go back to square one. Start over.

Once the dog is past that point of no return there's no use correcting him like that, IMO.....those are nagging corrections.

You need to keep on the look out for other dogs and (for now, until you get him proofed under distractions) remove yourselves from the situation to be fair to the dog. Im not saying turn tail and run in the opposite direction, but until you figure out his comfort level distance wise with other dogs, I would avoid them. As hard as it may be to do.

Can you explain how he shuts down? What exactly does he do after a hard correction?

I also wanted to add that you need to correct before your dog gets to the red line. The second he even looks at the other dog is when you correct.

 Quote: francis daigle

It's not like he's doing this on purpose (he's likely doing this because I'm screwing something up) but I find it depressing nonetheless.

Francis, there is nothing "depressing" about this common situation. Depressing is only when we don't move on towards fixing it.

Backing up to Square 1 is always productive. There is nothing personal about it, and yes, of course you are screwing up. We all do! If we are screwing up in different ways, we have still all screwed up in these ways too.

But depressing is so counter-productive! It would be so much more rewarding to put the energy on upbeat foundation work that's consistent and into being a strong, cheerful, can-do handler. I'm not censuring you, because the only way I know these things is: I have been there.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

But depressing is so counter-productive! It would be so much more rewarding to put the energy on upbeat foundation work that's consistent and into being a strong, cheerful, can-do handler. I'm not censuring you, because the only way I know these things is: I have been there.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

Francis, is there any way that you could get video of these situations. Setting them up exactly the way that they play out that is unacceptable to you.

Nothing dangerous that would put your dog at risk, but maybe how he acts with visitors. Or how he is on a walk. Or when he isn't engaging with you in play.

This has gone on for so long, maybe we need to SEE it to help more.:wink:

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: francis daigle

It's not like he's doing this on purpose (he's likely doing this because I'm screwing something up) but I find it depressing nonetheless.

Francis, there is nothing "depressing" about this common situation. Depressing is only when we don't move on towards fixing it.

Backing up to Square 1 is always productive. There is nothing personal about it, and yes, of course you are screwing up. We all do! If we are screwing up in different ways, we have still all screwed up in these ways too.

But depressing is so counter-productive! It would be so much more rewarding to put the energy on upbeat foundation work that's consistent and into being a strong, cheerful, can-do handler. I'm not censuring you, because the only way I know these things is: I have been there.

I have been there too....with a 95 pound dog who would absolutely redirect on me when he was corrected for 'tantrums'. He would even watch the tops of trees, hoping to see a squirrel so he could flip out. I call it 'trolling for trouble'. Connie's step-by-step, methodical way is spot-on the best way to deal with teaching the dog to walk nicely and attentively on a leash.

I also tried to find ways to engage my dog that he found irresistible. He loves food, but not enough to distract him from something 'really interesting' and correcting him on a prong was not working. He was too big for me to manage in those circumstances with a DD collar...his head comes up to my elbow so lifting his front feet off the ground wasn't really doable. Doing the drive-building work was for us, key to finding something that could keep my dog engaged. Because his biggest distractions were small moving things (or other dogs), I felt I needed to appeal to that side of him mentally in order to be more interesting.

I invested in the 'Drive and Focus' DVD and a couple of tugs and an Orbee, and we learned to play. His tug or ball became the fun prey item that he fixated on (instead of the ^%$& squirrels), and it gave me another wonderful tool in the arsenal. It's a great way to build or repair a relationship with a dog too.

It's been a long time since I've had any trouble with my fella, and on the rare occasion he starts 'trolling', I can just bring out a tug and all is well in the world again.

Would that help in this situation? I've heard that JRT's are quite driven little guys.

 Quote:

You're correcting at the wrong time!!!!

And you are expecting too much from this little guy distraction wise.

Be fair, if you haven't worked with him on low level distractions
how can you expect him to respond to high level distractions?

He works rather well on low level distractions. In our backyard he's not looking for trouble as actively. As soon as I unleash him there, he does a couple rounds of sniff/mark then comes back to me for play time.

But when we get in the front yard, his attitude totally changes. Like Kristel mentionned, he immediately enters a strange mindset and will throw a tantrum at leaves who "dare" to fall from trees.

 Quote:

Can you explain how he shuts down? What exactly does he do after a hard correction?

To be honest I think I tend to undercorrect… which could contribute to escalate his excitement. I just cannot pull myself into giving him a level 7-8 correction just because he eyeballed something. There is absolutely no dog trainer using prong collars in my area, so I'm going from the best of my knowledge with what I can find here.

The only time I can recall that he shutted down, he basically stopped walking. He kept falling behind - walking really slowly - like he was ill.

It was a mid-high correction and he was not yet quite gone berserk. He was persistently barking at frogs chaining "GULP!" sounds in a pond nearby. I brought him near the pond to show him there was nothing there to worry about but he seemed irritated that he heard things and couldn't see them. This correction came after 3-4 inefficient low-level corrections.

His reaction really made me feel like sh*t... yet there had been much stronger corrections than this one that he would just shrug off and then he'd resume whatever he was doing wrong...

 Quote:

Doing the drive-building work was for us, key to finding something that could keep my dog engaged. Because his biggest distractions were small moving things (or other dogs), I felt I needed to appeal to that side of him mentally in order to be more interesting.

This dog indeed has a strong drive and there's that ball-on-string with a bell inside that totally drives him crazy. I make him chase it around and between my legs like I'm dribbling a basketball. Even this toy had very limited success. Perhaps, like you and Connie mentioned, I asked too much too soon and should've stuck longer in the backyard with it. But he's so much acting like there's nothing better in the world back there that I'm confused to establish when the right time to finally bring him for a walk is. May I should try to stay in the front yard longer then slowly progress down the street.

Could you describe how you did it? Did you play with him only when he walked nicely beside you or persistently lured him around with the toy to keep him focused on it all the time ?

 Quote: Michael_Wise

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

But depressing is so counter-productive! It would be so much more rewarding to put the energy on upbeat foundation work that's consistent and into being a strong, cheerful, can-do handler. I'm not censuring you, because the only way I know these things is: I have been there.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN!

Francis, is there any way that you could get video of these situations. Setting them up exactly the way that they play out that is unacceptable to you.

Nothing dangerous that would put your dog at risk, but maybe how he acts with visitors. Or how he is on a walk. Or when he isn't engaging with you in play.

This has gone on for so long, maybe we need to SEE it to help more.:wink:

Hi Micheal. Is this a good idea ? Other fellas here are telling me not to put my dog in these situations anymore.

Depends. Do you have a plan for training the dog without distractions?

 Quote: Francis Daigle

Hi Micheal. Is this a good idea ? Other fellas here are telling me not to put my dog in these situations anymore.

Seeing as how this has gone on for over a year, and you are getting much of the same advice as then......

I'm not talking about putting your dog in a dangerous situation, like with another dog or animal out in the open without a leash, or anything like that.

So no. Ideally you need to avoid these situations, but something has been going on for the past year that isn't working. Maybe seeing it first hand, on video, someone can get this straightened out.

 Quote: francis daigle

Could you describe how you did it? Did you play with him only when he walked nicely beside you or persistently lured him around with the toy to keep him focused on it all the time ?

I play with him only when I want his focus, and did it in gradually more distracting environments to keep me and the toy the center of the Universe. I always end the game when the dog wants to keep playing too, so he's more than ready to play next time.

The beauty of it is, in time he became so accustomed to me grabbing his attention for a game whenever he saw a squirrel or another dog, that these things themselves became a cue to give me his attention. Instead of "oh boy, a squirrel! I'm gonna fixate and spaz out and try to get it!" it is now "Oh boy, a squirrel! My person's gonna play tug with me!"