wendy,

we usually do NOT get that close. I usually cross the street when we see a dog, but sometimes they come out of nowhere, around corners, etc, and there is nowhere to go. In this particular instance, we were hanging out on an athletic field, and I was letting her run when we saw someone come in with their dog from the other end. I immediately leashed her and started walking out with her, but they guy and his dog kept getting closer and closer almost as if he wanted to his dog to say hi, not realizing (how, i am not sure) that she did not want to say hi. Once we got off the field, she was having a fit because his dog was then off leash and barking at us through the fence. that's when i was trying to get her under control. We normally do not get close to dogs, always work from a distance.

we do tend to walk the other way, i redirect her attention, and use the clicker now all of the time. like i said though, there are times when it is unavoidable.

i might try the muzzle, but i really don't want to. i can't imagine her enjoying herself at all with that.

connie

i just replied re: this, but we do not intentionally get that close to other dogs, but there are times when it is unavoidable.

 Quote: Connie Sutherland

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

... if she get's THAT re-active when you get close to a dog, don't get that close to other dog's. She's letting you know that she's not comfortable and it stresses her. ... For now, you should be working on this problem from a distance from other dogs. ... Gauge how far you can be from other dogs so that she's comfortable and GRADUALLY work your way up from there.

Jenn, this should become your mantra.

Desensitizing is the way to go here, IMO, and that means working with the dog just outside the edge of her circle of reactivity, only very gradually reducing the distance. This (IMO) is the only long-term solution here.

The are many recent threads on this topic, with very detailed steps. If you use desensitizing as your search term and expand the date range to a year or so, you will have a wealth of good suggestions.

Here's one:
http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/228532

I also agree that head halters are not a training tool.

I used to think head halters were for a lazy handler and embarassing for the dog. I started using a head halter when we found 1 yr old Daisy (dane mix) because I did not understand what her issues were and the only person who seemed to help outside of this forum, is a positive only trainer. Daisy is now 82 lbs and 30". The trainer used her crated yapping dog for interest as we walked in closer circles treating when she turned away from the other dog with me. After about 20 min we could come within 3 ft without an issue. But that day we were not ready for face to face. I used the head halter in pet supply stores and other places where dogs were leashed. We discoverd her "agression" was curiosity. We are now in advanced obedience where we use a pinch collar to train there and at home.
We use the head halter for events with great success. I can control where her head is when kids other dogs approach. Many of the Dane owners we know use them. When I met up with them I found Daisy was much better controlled then these spoiled show dogs. Since we attend a lot of dog events with many differing training phylosophies its just easier and PC. Personally, I see it as a first introduction tool to control her so I can teach rather then a reenforcment training tool. For her resistance and treats are not enough to reenforce or get compliance to a command,that she knows, when there are tempting distractions. I also have her e-collar trained for off leash work.

http://www.alaskadognews.com

Talk about embarassing your dog!

 Quote: jenn verrier

wendy,

we usually do NOT get that close. I usually cross the street when we see a dog, but sometimes they come out of nowhere, around corners, etc, and there is nowhere to go. In this particular instance, we were hanging out on an athletic field, and I was letting her run when we saw someone come in with their dog from the other end. I immediately leashed her and started walking out with her, but they guy and his dog kept getting closer and closer almost as if he wanted to his dog to say hi, not realizing (how, i am not sure) that she did not want to say hi. Once we got off the field, she was having a fit because his dog was then off leash and barking at us through the fence. that's when i was trying to get her under control. We normally do not get close to dogs, always work from a distance.

we do tend to walk the other way, i redirect her attention, and use the clicker now all of the time. like i said though, there are times when it is unavoidable.

i might try the muzzle, but i really don't want to. i can't imagine her enjoying herself at all with that.

I do understand the problems you face with a dog that is re-active to other dogs. And i also understand the problems with other owner's who don't understand the dilema and are of the thought that you should just "let the dog's work it out on their own". It's tough. If she (not sure of your girl's name) is already at that red zone it's sometimes impossible to get her attention back, and when that happened with me & Tucker I just forgo thinking I could use this as a training opportunity and just got out of the situation. No commands, not correcting, nothing. Because it wouldn't have been fair to give him a command or try to correct him when he was in that state.
IMO. Once they've hit that zone, it's hard to bring them back and any correction I gave him at that point would more than likely just amp him up more.

so for me, if a dog surprised us(turning a corner, someone letting their dog off leash and I didn't see etc) while we were out on a walk i knew it would be too late so I just dealt with the surrounding situation and kept walking, driving off the other dog if I had too in order to get things back under control. Once we had practiced from a distance and gradually shortened the distance between him and other dogs, was the only time I saw any improvement. Read her body language and when you see her spot a dog watch how she re-acts. If she doesn't respond to you back up to a distance where she does listen and work from there.

I also found that once I drove off dogs a few times, Tucker's aggression went way down. Once he learned that i would handle the intruder as best I could, he seemed to wait to see what would happen. if the dog somehow got past me and proceeded to come in closer, that is when he would re-act.

Tucker will never be good with other high strung, bouncy dogs. He just can't handle them so i make sure we don't interact with dogs of those type.Although he is tonne's better than he was when I first got him (his old motto was attack first, ask questions later), he still has issues. The little interaction we do have with other dogs is with an older very lazy and docile Golden Retreiver. That's just the way it has to be. But it doesn't make his life any less wonderful because he doesn't get along with every dog under the sun. He's just picky, like me!

So start slowly with her at a distance that is comfortable for her. You will know when you've increased the distance too much because that's the point she will stop listening.
It will take time, and im talking weeks possibly. But don't rush it. It's worth it in the end.

Is she big on toy's or food?

wendy

i agree with everything you say. i know once she is past the point of caring about cliker and treats, for instance when we are walking down the narrow stairwell of the building and another dog is coming up or down! in cases like that, i just basically have to pick her up and carry her down to get out of that situation as quickly as possible. other times i will have to just turn and go quickly another way, which is one reason why i though the head halter helped a bit, because i would literrally be dragging her backwards when we did that.

i guess in the situation i mentioned with the other guy, i thought i could get her far enough away to try to work with her, but it just didn't happen. my bad. but yes, usually if i realize we are too close, i will move further away to try to work with her, or avoid it all together. luanne is the same way as tucker, can't handle bouncy hyper dogs. we go to the dog park a few times a week to stand outside the fence and work that way, and she can actually greet dogs through the fence without any bad behavior, as long as the dog is very calm and "non threatening".

i wonder if i could start screaming "GET OUT OF HERE!" to people walking their dogs in our path so she will get the idea that i am handling it. totally kidding about that btw!

yep i know it takes time, as it's already been a year! she is not big on toys and does okay with food (i always have a clicker in one hand and a handful of cheese or veggie-dog in the other).

" I started using a head halter when we found 1 yr old Daisy (dane mix) because I did not understand what her issues were and the only person who seemed to help outside of this forum, is a positive only trainer."

I wasn't saying that a halti and the like can never be of any use in any situation. I was saying that it's not a training tool.

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

.... if a dog surprised us(turning a corner, someone letting their dog off leash and I didn't see etc) while we were out on a walk i knew it would be too late so I just dealt with the surrounding situation and kept walking, driving off the other dog if I had too in order to get things back under control. Once we had practiced from a distance and gradually shortened the distance between him and other dogs, was the only time I saw any improvement. Read her body language and when you see her spot a dog watch how she re-acts. If she doesn't respond to you back up to a distance where she does listen and work from there. .... So start slowly with her at a distance that is comfortable for her. You will know when you've increased the distance too much because that's the point she will stop listening. ... It will take time, and im talking weeks possibly. But don't rush it. It's worth it in the end.

Succinct and on point.

This is exactly what I have done and would recommend. It's work, and it can take a while, but the improvement (while in small steps) is steady, and this is actually addressing the root problem.

And yes, the more the dog perceives the owner as in charge and as the buffer between her and the rest of the world, the better the work goes.

I agree completly.

I find that yelling "My dog isn't friendly" or "MY dog BITES!!" loudly at people will make them respect our space in situations where I can see they aren't going to.

I have done this several times when someone with a dog on a flexilead was headed my direction.

yea that's what i do too. some kid with his little min pin kept following us, as if he wanted his dog to say hi, although it was obvious that we were dodging him and crossing the street back and forth. i finally had to tell him what was up, and he went away. i haven't been using the head halter the last couple days. i am working with her on the "leave it" command now.

i hate flexi leads/retractable by the way!