My dream for Liesel would be this: She would be unleashed in my unfenced yard, keeping an eye on the property and critters. Stray dogs are occasionally dropped off in the area, and they wreak havoc on my flock (so yes dogs come into the yard). Also, someone stole my husband's motorcycle out of our shop in broad daylight. I had hoped that Liesel would be a deterrent to predators of both varieties.

Now, I have no idea what a reasonable *expectation* would be anymore. She is, after all, a German *shepherd*, and dogs can and are used in the capacity I describe. At this point I want to be able to train her to obey on and off leash, or at least with a remote trainer. If she got that down, maybe one day she could fill the role I had hoped. And yes, I am willing to get both of us the training it would take for that kind of advanced work. But she's been such a difficult case, I wonder if I should ever hope for more than the basics. My current dream has been reduced to hoping that one day she can ride along side my bike with me.

I will say that the dog trainer acted as if I was nuts for suggesting that a dog ever be in any situation other than a)in platz, b) in a crate, or c) in a kennel run.

 Quote: Virginia Wyeth

Right now she is in hour 8 of a long down (2nd day home from the trainer)

I am very curious, did I read that right? Was the dog on 8 HOURS of down stay? Continuously?

 Quote: Melissa Hau

I am very curious, did I read that right? Was the dog on 8 HOURS of down stay? Continuously?

Yes, it's one of the things that the trainer recommended for establishing me and my husband as the alphas again. He keeps a dog in a 12 hour platz the first day he gets them.

 Quote: Virginia Wyeth

 Quote: Melissa Hau

I am very curious, did I read that right? Was the dog on 8 HOURS of down stay? Continuously?

Yes, it's one of the things that the trainer recommended for establishing me and my husband as the alphas again. He keeps a dog in a 12 hour platz the first day he gets them.

I'm sorry -- i was about to post kind of a long reply, and then I saw that. Not my kind of training. I have to re-write some.

 Quote: Virginia Wyeth

My dream for Liesel would be this: She would be unleashed in my unfenced yard, keeping an eye on the property and critters. Stray dogs are occasionally dropped off in the area, and they wreak havoc on my flock (so yes dogs come into the yard). Also, someone stole my husband's motorcycle out of our shop in broad daylight. I had hoped that Liesel would be a deterrent to predators of both varieties. ...

It doesn't sound like this is the dog for that scenario. But before you become unhappy that she falls short, my own opinion is that dogs who would fulfill all the parts of it are not thick on the ground.

Did you hope that a trainer who told you the dog would not go beyond a) platz, b) a crate, or c) a kennel run would return the dog to you ready to fulfill the expectations you mentioned? (I know you didn't. )

No matter what (and I'd better leave it to others to detail what is involved in acquiring and training a dog to be a flock shepherd and a property guardian), here you are with basic ob issues and a challenging dog (the very best kind to learn from).

I was going to say that I'd probably go to the Saturday training meeting, talk with the trainer, and ask about having him come to your home in the near future. Now I'm not sure that I could work with him.

But I'd have the dog contained for now, while I worked on my recall (and this is an excellent place for recall help). I'd order the e-collar video, which I'm glad you know about already, before even ordering the e-collar.

I think if it were me, I'd probably work with the dog on my own now, because of my reaction to the trainer's m.o., but others will reply too. Getting down to the most basic of the problems you present (recall work and ordering the e-collar video) would be my next steps.

I'm going to be very interested in what others have to say here.... especially about the 12-hour down to establish pack leadership. I'm kind of at a loss for words on that.

I looked at the Durham Haus website Virginia. I'm not so sure thats the right trainer for what you want. Just my opinion, but if your having a problem with the dog running away from you, enforcing an 8hr down stay isnt exactly building any kind of trust or the desire to be near you. I would think she'll bolt every chance she gets.

It's very depressing to think that perhaps even after checking someone's credential's nine ways to Sunday, I still managed to choose the wrong trainer.

 Quote: connie sutherland

Did you hope that a trainer who told you the dog would not go beyond a) platz, b) a crate, or c) a kennel run would return the dog to you ready to fulfill the expectations you mentioned? (I know you didn't. )

No, I didn't think that of course. On the other hand, this didn't come out until I met with him to pick her up.

I did have some bad vibes when I picked her up. She looked a lot like a ...a sad dog.

But the good news is that she still loves me & seems very eager to please me --- maybe moreso than before.

Oh, and btw, when I say the property isn't fenced. It's fenced, just not in any kind of meaningful way for keeping things in or out. It's what my dad called "hog fencing."

 Quote: steve strom

I looked at the Durham Haus website Virginia. I'm not so sure thats the right trainer for what you want. Just my opinion, but if your having a problem with the dog running away from you, enforcing an 8hr down stay isnt exactly building any kind of trust or the desire to be near you. I would think she'll bolt every chance she gets.

I really expected that it would be since he trains all the K-9s in the state, dogs for the DEA, & many of the service dogs in the state. I thought it would be exactly the right kind of trainer. I thought I was biting the bullet, scraping up money I couldn't afford, so I didn't cut corners & I got the *right* trainer, not just a touchy-feely hotdog tosser.

Lol, I think a little more balance would be helpful. Not all touchy-feely, but not all heavy-handed old school either.

Btw folks, don't forget, she killed a dog. Drastic measures were necessary. Perhaps I didn't take the right ones -- time will tell -- but I knew I had to do something serious.