Edited by Connie Sutherland (10/07/2009 05:24 PM)
Edit reason: citation for original text

 Quote: tom sargent

There is a thing that I would like to share on flea control. Last spring we had the flea infestation like none ever. I was told about "BAYER 12 MONTH TREE AND SHRUB INSECT CONTROL" it comes in a blue quart plastic container and can be purchased at Lowes for less that $20. It has the same active ingredient as "ADVANTAGE" and it is applied the same, right down the middle of the back. It only requires 2cc per 10lbs of the dogs body weight and it is used once a month. This really works my flea problem disappeared for good in less than a week, not to mention any ticks that I find on my dogs are always dead. I used it on 6 week old pups with no issues at all. I have had the same container for almost a year, it works great and saves lots of $$$

You used the shrub stuff on 6-week-old puppies?

And you don't know the other ingredients?

" It only requires 2cc per 10lbs of the dogs body weight and it is used once a month. "

I'm really curious: Where did the dosing instructions come from?

The product is limited due to a replacement product that contains fertilizers now hitting retail.
If your lucky you may can still find it ?

Simple use of a SEARCH engine on the product and its specific
active ingredients are there for the reading.

Dosing is figured with simple math per concentration of solution
JUST LIKE THE PILLS!! scary simple

I've done some looking around online for more sources. I've found people on UKC boards, hound boards, hunting boards, etc that use this product in this method or use it super diluted as a flea dip. I'm not saying that it doesn't work but there is something to be said for using a product as the label intends especially when using poisons on the family dog vs the family apple tree.

I know this works for you but it is just as easy to conclude that the normal advantage would have worked as well. Not to mention the potential liability that goes with using this product off label. Many of these products which use this chemical as an active ingredient have a nitrogen fertilizer in it which would result in burns or if you had an adverse reaction that required medical attention to your vet might not be able to identify the product doing the damage. Who knows what the inactive ingredients are or what their long term effect on animals is.

Along the lines of what Melissa is saying, here's the main concern (in addition to the conversion issue):
http://www.bayeradvanced.com/media/msdssheet/Tree&Shrub_Insect_Control_Concentrate_01Mar20.pdf

If you look at the MSDS (material safety data sheet) for this product, you'll see that there are two or three ingredients (active) that are not disclosed on the label, because they are 'trade secrets'.

Hmmm, I think I'd opt to pay the price for the Advantix...
(and I don't think the comparison to buying ivermectin at the feed store holds any water; trees and shrubs aren't mammals)

 Quote: Lynne Barrows

.... there are two or three ingredients (active) that are not disclosed on the label, because they are 'trade secrets'. ...

No wonder I was unable to get a complete ingredient list from the Bayer site...


Great hunting, Lynne!

You post a valid suspicious disagreement,if the product was as "you" claim there would be alot of sick or dead dogs which is not the case.

 Quote: tom sargent

You post a valid suspicious disagreement,if the product was as "you" claim there would be alot of sick or dead dogs which is not the case.

Tom, for me, one concern would be that it would cause problems in the future. Imidacloprid is well-tolerated in dogs, at the recommended rates, but there's no guarantee that whatever those 'other' ingredients are would not cause some sort of health issue down the road...

 Quote: tom sargent

there would be alot of sick or dead dogs which is not the case.

First of all, since the product you are talking about is for trees and shrubs and not live animals, there would not even be "alot of dogs" with the product applied. Since there aren't many with it applied, it stands to reason that is why there aren't many sick or dead from it either.

For the very few dogs that have this tree insecticide applied, as this is an off-label use, I'm guessing that if there WERE any related deaths or illnesses that could be traced back to it, it wouldn't be reported and there would be no indemnity to the company since a tree and shrub product was never intended for use on animals. It would be at the owner's risk. In other words, even if "alot of sick or dead dogs" did occur, we wouldn't necessarily know about it unless a very large amount of people were using this product on their dogs and their dogs suffered ill effects.

When playing with something that is essentially a poison, I would prefer and recommend to err on the side of caution and only use a product on the species for which it was intended.