Don't hesitate to use the prong if it works. I was horrified of it the first time I put it on Yote, honestly I felt awful putting it on my 5 month old puppy.

But he never seemed bothered by it, but he does walk like a nice gentleman while wearing it, instead of like pulling like a freight train.
He also comes running while woowooing and has the full body wiggles every time I pick it up, obviously it has positive associations despite it looks and use.

We're about 4 hours away from OKC. 2 hours from KC and Wichita.

Jennifer

Kaz is the same way. He knows when I get it, we're going for a walk and he sits nicely to let me put it on. And like yours, he walks wonderfully with it, usually with a loose leash, unless the 2 year old gets further ahead than Kaz thinks he should...Kaz will try to catch up and herd him back to us. So I just shorten the leash to keep him by my side and have the 2 year old "freeze" until we catch up.

I am curious... What else do you do to get him to walk along with you?

I think Steve is right on in that you need to become more fun to the pup. Chill on the I'm-in-charge stuff and PLAY! That doesn't mean let the dog be a wild child though, you will need to find a balance.

As for the PetCo classes, I would work on the training at home a little more before introducing the pup to a class full of other young dogs. You have already mentioned that he is a little nervous around dogs, so plopping him into a class full of them, and they will not likely be the calm adults, but the young hyper 4-6 month old pups, will not lend its self to learning at all. You may end up going backwards. These classes have two things to offer me and my dogs; for very young pups, a chance to socialize and be around other puppies, and for older dogs, a chance to proof the commands already known in the presence of other dogs and people as distractions (both of which are fulfilled by my SCH club with known dogs and pups and more controlled situations). The puppy socialization thing is less of an issue as they come up on 5-6 months. That is when I start working on the whole 'dogs are less fun than me' thing and get them focused on me. And from what you have described, Kaz is not quite ready for the distraction training thing anyway.

I'd focus more on VERY upbeat marker training and play right now... It can be a great time and incorperate both objectives for you, fun and training.

And don't be afraid to look into Schutzhund training. Besides the bite work, there is also obedience and tracking, both very rewarding activities. In the OB work, the standards are light years ahead of what PetCo would ever have and the tracking is a fun and relaxing time to spend with the dog.

I don't understand any of this thread.
What is being asked?
What has been decided?
Who is training this dog?
Why is the dog heading into a Petco puppy class?

I'm definitely missing something here.

 Quote: jessicakromer

I am curious... What else do you do to get him to walk along with you? Before we went to the prong collar, we would go outside and play in the front yard, then take him out to the road to begin our walk. Once we would get past our driveway, he'd start the sit and pull. So we started offering treats to get him to come to us. But as soon as he heard another dog bark, he'd sit, pull and try to run back toward our house. Again, these are dogs that are fenced in and not even in sight to Kazak yet. We continued trying do to do this over and over but he'd just fight us the whole way. With the prong, he doesn't even notice the other dogs unless they are out being walked, too. Like tonight, a neighbor was walking her old chocolate lab and while Kaz didn't go toward him and the lab stayed with his owner, Kaz started barking at him, even in a sit.


I think Steve is right on in that you need to become more fun to the pup. Chill on the I'm-in-charge stuff and PLAY! That doesn't mean let the dog be a wild child though, you will need to find a balance. I guess the whole "I'm-in-charge" stuff comes because I am the one in charge. I am the one who is home with the kids and the dog and it's up to me to keep it all under control because while Ty does work with Kaz as well, because of his job he's not always around. Which is why I've probably focused more on trying to ensure that Kaz sees me as a leader as well...I have to be able to control him when Ty isn't around, which can be often and sometimes for very long periods of time.

As for the PetCo classes, I would work on the training at home a little more before introducing the pup to a class full of other young dogs. You have already mentioned that he is a little nervous around dogs, so plopping him into a class full of them, and they will not likely be the calm adults, but the young hyper 4-6 month old pups, will not lend its self to learning at all. You may end up going backwards. These classes have two things to offer me and my dogs; for very young pups, a chance to socialize and be around other puppies, and for older dogs, a chance to proof the commands already known in the presence of other dogs and people as distractions (both of which are fulfilled by my SCH club with known dogs and pups and more controlled situations). The puppy socialization thing is less of an issue as they come up on 5-6 months. That is when I start working on the whole 'dogs are less fun than me' thing and get them focused on me. And from what you have described, Kaz is not quite ready for the distraction training thing anyway.

I'd focus more on VERY upbeat marker training and play right now... It can be a great time and incorperate both objectives for you, fun and training.

And don't be afraid to look into Schutzhund training. Besides the bite work, there is also obedience and tracking, both very rewarding activities. In the OB work, the standards are light years ahead of what PetCo would ever have and the tracking is a fun and relaxing time to spend with the dog. Ty is interested in the bite work. But I'm trying to be open minded and check it out with him.

 Quote: randy allen

I don't understand any of this thread.
What is being asked? Originally, I posted for tips to help determine Kaz's temperament. Is he "hard" or "soft". I'm leaning more towards hard, because nothing seems to phase him in the least.
What has been decided? Nothing other than we'd like to do more formal training with him because so far it seems like we're failing. He doesn't listen (especially to me) and is just a PITA at this point.
Who is training this dog? Ty and me(Dani). More so me as Ty's job takes him away quite a bit. Our 8 year old also does short little bouts of "sit", "stay", and "kennel" with him. He's a family pet so we're trying to incorporate the family appropriately. The 2 year old feeds and waters the dog with our supervision.
Why is the dog heading into a Petco puppy class? It's something we considered because Kazak's nickname is "Kaz the Spaz" and other than doing "sit" and "down" for a treat he doesn't listen at all. We were going to do the obedience classes through the local kennel club but they don't begin until January and thought the PetCo class might be a good precursor.

I'm definitely missing something here.

Ahemmm,
So you've decided....what?

I'd advise skipping the Petco classes and waiting for the kennel club classes. Meanwhile training him yourself. Ob training often builds confidence, which he seems to need. Temperament issues are more often inherited than from abuse or other trauma. Make the training fun. And if possible, drive to a quiet place for training instead of his having to pass by barking dogs as much as possible until his confidence increases. Be sure to not try to reasure him if he sees a dog and reacts. This will only reinforce the reactiveness. And if you are anticipating his reacting, he will sense the worry and conclude other dogs are a threat. So stay calm, confident, and in control. If he barks at a dog, better to turn and walk away than try to keep him in a sit at this time. But make sure you don't do so in a manner that would imply you are running away in fear of the dog. Turn and walk away a bit, then turnback. If he barks, repeat. Each time he barks, repeat. To get ahead, he will have to remain quiet.

Redirecting with a "watch-me" is very good; but only after you've worked on the command and get good results without distractions.

If you have a place nearby, such as an empty field, where it is safe for him to wander on a long line; you might bring the line with you on his walk and let him have a break to explore. This can be a goal he will look forward to instead of worrying about other dogs along the route.

Randy
Still haven't decided anything. Waiting for Ty to get home so he can observe the behavior as well. Then we'll go from there.
I had one other dog besides this one that I got as a puppy. She was a wolf/shepherd/terrier mix and was nowhere near as hard as this guy. Just a look and she'd know...this guy, nothing seems to phase him.
Joy-
Thanks for the response. I take the long line outside in the back yard but it's fenced so maybe not the same experience. Definitely worth trying it on a walk and see how he does that way.

Most of our training happens in the backyard or kitchen with the exceptions of the walk around our neighborhood. We live in a small subdivision with only three streets....more like one loop with a street in the middle. Walking the whole loop is only 1/4 mile.