Thanks Mr. Arnold

We do try to pose a united front - one thing that we have learned with raising children is consistancy is key. We try to have a routine but unfortunately seems time is against us.

We get up and let the dogs out, feed them, go to work, get home & cook, exercise dogs (may be in walking/run format depending on who takes them; and varies on who goes as the only all go when both my husband and I go), feed them, lounge around then bedtime. When I was in a formal OB class then did formal training but otherwise it follows moreso on the come/sit/stay/okay format for affection or just cause. As winter approaches I can see the outside train time diminish but even when I just walk the dogs I usually mix up what they are doing sit/stay/come, go around and over stuff, etc.

My goals are for a well trained dog that I can proudly walk down the street but we don't need to win any OB competitions if you get what I am saying. Thanks for your replies.

Tamara, I would suggest maybe some additional exercise. One walk a day doesn't seem like much to me.(even for pets) But then I live with high drive dogs that need alot of exercise-mental & physical for all of us to remain sane. Well, almost same. I work & run them at least 2x a day many days 3x. Maybe you or hubby could get up a 1/2 hour earlier & walk the dogs then also. Even if you could do it 4 days out of the week, I think that it may help with some of the behavior issues. A tired dog is a much better behaved dog to begin with. Tired dogs have alot lest interest in pushing each other's buttons. Just a thought.

 Quote: Anne Jones

Tamara, I would suggest maybe some additional exercise. One walk a day doesn't seem like much to me.(even for pets) But then I live with high drive dogs that need alot of exercise-mental & physical for all of us to remain sane. Well, almost same. I work & run them at least 2x a day many days 3x. Maybe you or hubby could get up a 1/2 hour earlier & walk the dogs then also. Even if you could do it 4 days out of the week, I think that it may help with some of the behavior issues. A tired dog is a much better behaved dog to begin with. Tired dogs have alot lest interest in pushing each other's buttons. Just a thought.

I agree!!!! And the walking shouldn't be a casual stroll, or stopping to sniff, but a brisk walk.

I do try and get up some mornings but it doesn't happen all the time - unfortunately we are in that stage of life were work/family balance is difficult and I get up at 6 and don't get home til 6. That is one of the reasons we got the breeds we did as Athena in the next year will slow down significantly and Diesel is from the bully side of the American Bulldog so is already quite lazy.

When we go out it is my exercise time as well so heart rate is boosted definately not a stroll. Last night I suited up my daughter in her snow gear, took the stroller and Athena and we did a 45 min walk. I do make her stop and sit because it seems that the more stop/sit go at the beginning of the walk we do the better she responds on leash. She pulls a bit at the start then slows down. Diesel, Bandit and the hubby went for a run.

We try to do what we can but run out of time some days...

I'd urge you to re-read Mike's suggestions once a day for a while. There is nothing in there that goes against common sense in dog-training, IMO. That means there is no confusion triggered between his post and other advice.

Have you seen any of the Leerburg videos? If so, which ones?


P.S. You are definitely on the right track by working with each dog separately. But like everyone else here, I consider plenty of exercise to be non-optional. Tired dogs are good and happy, and dogs with frustrated energy are wired and destructive. I know that's oversimplified, but structured exercise is just crucial. When I worked outside the house, I got up an hour early every workday so I was leaving power-walked dogs in their crates (or wherever, depending on the dogs I had). You have three (a pack), and a pack requires much more commitment than one or two.

Even now, with my office in my house, I make myself start the day with that chunk of structured exercise and not put it off just because I can.

Welcome to the board! You will get great advice here.

Hi Connie,

Thanks for the welcome. I haven't watched any videos yet actually just learned about this website and board early this week from my AB UK forum.

I don't find my dogs destructive or anything to that manner it is a more of a not "solid" in their OB. I have been through a couple of different methods of training and some parts are similar then others not...so that is where my confusion comes in. The reason I go to a trainer is because I know I don't have all the info but then they recommend something and you assume that it is a good thing...and it isn't. I read another post about a guy earlier that was taking his DA staffy to OB class and he posted video and it really struck a cord with me because that was similar advice I got with Diesel when he started showing DA tendencies. We did a 16 class OB course and ended up with a more frustrated dog. Now I am trying to undo the damage I did to him with a new trainer who has a similar background to Ed in the former police dog handler/breeder turned public trainer so we will see how it goes.

I am trying to break it all down, do some more learning and seeing where it takes me. I want the basic OB video and have to order it but want to see if there is anything else I would like to get to reduce wait and shipping times. I am not sure what training aids to use as I think a prong collar will give me more problems with Diesel but then have been told by others it helps them control their DA bulldogs...seems to be oposite advise all over. Same with Athena but because she is a English Mastiff I am not sure if she is a hard/soft dog, she will go submissive when she gets in trouble so don't know if a prong is the right approach to her either.

We have just started using food with Diesel under the direction of the new trainer but it is a manner of retraining my own thinking cause I just finished all the course with "no treats" ever! Yikes, amazing how you can own dogs your entire life and then realize you don't know anything

Let me start by saying that there is NO one method or one technique that works best for all dogs, people, or situations. Anyone who says everyone should do xyz, is either lacking in knowledge, or just trying to sell their own ideas.

The reason that some aggressive dogs do poorly on a prong is directly related to why it woks so well with other dogs. It is due to how the prong functions.

A prong collar, when sized correctly, gives multiple stimulations when activated (leash tightened). This is because each link rotates away from the tip of the link open ends. Each link rotating simultaneouly gives as many stimulating signals as there are links. So using a prong stimulates a dog. Many aggressive dogs are easily over stimulated. Reducing stimulation is helpful with them, not increasing it.

Does that make the problem more understandable? Now instead of my saying you should or shouldn't use a prong, you can use the info I've given you, along with whatever other factors involved; to decide if you will or won't.

Before deciding on which method or techniques you will settle on, you might try not only researching them through reading, videos, asking questions, observing trainers in action; but find out WHY and HOW they are supposed to work the way they do. When getting conflicting answers, look for the reason and logic behind them. Especially helpful, is an understanding of natural pack dynamics. Not simply the mechanics such as who goes through a door first, or who eats first; but the body mental presence and personality behind an alpha. Being the leader is much more about your attitude than your actions.

For instance, knowing the mechanics of how a prong collar functions led me to understanding why they had the reaction they did on some aggressive dogs. I saw a pattern in that those aggressive dogs that they made worse, were all easily highly stimulated. When head collars became so popular, I not only looked at how dogs reacted to them, my understanding of pack behavior through my work with wolves; but I looked at them under the role that physics operated.

Thanks for the info Joy. I am going to ask our trainer on the 12th to demonstrate how to properly fit and use the prong and see what his thoughts are on using it.

With Diesel he actually is the better of the two at basic OB but as soon as he sees a dog all bets are off. He lunges and barks wanting to get over to it - we don't know if it is the "killer" instinct or just wants to be around other dogs that badly. But he also doesn't introduce himself nicely and usually nips/head buts the other dog who in turn says FO to Diesel who then replys "game on lets fight" so it just becomes a bigger mess. We did use a martingale with him but the trainer figures that because he doesn't release the presure off the collar when he sees a dog he is causing a cycle of suffocation which then hightens his adreneline which then causes more agression. Makes sense to me so we are trying other methods (including a head halter because we can place him in a sit and try to calm him then reward him for avoiding/not reacting to the other dog). I don't want to use the head collar forever but am willing to try it out as we managed to get Diesel within 15 feet of another dog with no reaction.

This doesn't fit in my original post but I understand, or think I understand, it all ties together. I appreciate everything I am learning from this site already as it is really informative and not abusive like some other sites I have gone to.

 Quote: tamara tholl

... I don't find my dogs destructive or anything to that manner it is a more of a not "solid" in their OB.

Under "wired and destructive" (as a result of frustrated energy from not enough exercise) I would include "pushing each other's buttons," as Anne put it and being a little too wired to do calm basic ob.