Re: the female's insubordination: she absolutely shouldn't act like that and I am working on her. Despite her opinion, I still make her do the ungodly sit at the door etc. A little less than a year ago I moved away from my beloved trainer who has brought her up with me since she was a baby. I don't know anyone who I trust around here with this delicate and precious girl.

She does need to retain her ability to work independantly of me, in fact I depend on her to, so it is a little tricky. But she does know the difference between 1. working/not working and also, for instance she'll give me the finger and run to my neighbor's yard to see their puppy and I KNOW she thinks it's acceptable for her to blow me off since "she's only going to see the puppy, and the puppy loves her! and I let them play together BEFORE so why not NOW, so what's the problem?" (Ari-logic) anthropomorphic? Yes. She found the hole in my powers- she can blow my stop command and run next door and I have no recourse.

BTW I am long-lining her to work on this and leashing her when the puppy is out.

Re: house toys, the male LOVES stuffies, and she really doesn't care. So he has his stuffies and she'll carry around a ball or something and all is well.

My dogs don't have any toys, all toys are mine

I never ever keep toys out at my house. Nico whom the others defer to, will take them all and lay on them anyway. She doesn't play with them, she just lays on them.

If they have a chewie or treat only one gets a chewie at a time and no other dog is allowed to approach them. We only play with toys outside and one on one.

 Quote: juliana goodwin

.... she'll give me the finger and run to my neighbor's yard to see their puppy and I KNOW she thinks it's acceptable for her to blow me off since "she's only going to see the puppy, and the puppy loves her! and I let them play together BEFORE so why not NOW, so what's the problem?" (Ari-logic) anthropomorphic? Yes. She found the hole in my powers- she can blow my stop command and run next door and I have no recourse.

BTW I am long-lining her to work on this and leashing her when the puppy is out.

I just noticed this. The whole story about "she's only going to see the puppy, and the puppy loves her! and I let them play together BEFORE so why not NOW" is so counterproductive (as you realize).

The dog is succumbing to a distraction rather than complying with the recall. Period.

It's a training issue. Period.

I'm not being confrontational --- I'm really not --- I'm just gung-ho on having a reliable recall and not doing this (using your recall when it's not solid and you have no way to reinforce it) ....

Every time the dog blows it off, it's reinforced that it's optional.

There are some really great training-the-recall threads on this board. I could hunt out a couple for you if you want.

 Quote: juliana goodwin

BTW about my female- she is a Medical Service Dog. She and I are perhaps excessively bonded as a result of this. She accompanies me everywhere I go, and she very much developed a sense of being "my special girl" and I know she resents having to share me with Ruger. She and I are more important to each other than maybe the average dog/human pair. I need and depend on her, and since she was young she has been encouraged to think for herself (in her job she has to often make decisions on my behalf and act on them) She is smart as a whip and considers her own opinions to be as valid as any human's-and in working capacity she is often right. Whereas Ruger knows he's a dog and is content to be totally obedient and not question me.

She often thinks she's "above" menial commands or drills like (sigh!) sitting at the door etc. Don't be fooled though she is as sweet and sesitive as the day is long and discipline is a fine line with her..

What program did she come from? This behavior is absolutely not acceptable in an SD (service dog) and I'm surprised wasn't discovered before she was released from the program. Your first step should be to contact the program and tell them about her behavior.

And though SDs and GDs (guide dogs) should have gumption to make decisions on their own, that does not mean they should be allowed to engage in any unmannerly behavior. More than any pet, the SD must be above reproach. Poor manners is cause to be denied access. It also makes life difficult for other SD and GD users, when some are seen to misbahave.

As for making decisions, that is only under the right circumstances. For instance; a guide dog only makes independent decisions while the handle is being held by the blind person. Once dropped, the dog must become complient. Waliking when the handle is dropped is done in heel, not sniffing or wandering at the end of the leash. In fact, unless the harness is removed, no sniffing is allowed.

Both GDs and SDs are routinely taught to wait calmly at a door for permission to go through. To sit calmly by a vehicle for permission to enter. To wait for permission to exit vehicle.

I would really like to know what program released such a dog as an SD!

Oh please- to whomever is trying to insinuate that my female is not a properly trained Service Dog--these behaviors are all off duty out of harness problems, when she's in harness, she IS beyond reproach. But a dog is still a dog, and she makes mistakes!

The school she came from is excellent, and I would never in a million years but their name on here for you people to smear them.

I did an owner-trainer program where she did her public access training in a foster home, then has lived with me from 12 mos on doing task training under their supervision. A year ago we moved away from our trainer (with her blessing) if she has any issues, I am to blame not them.

I resent this sort of crap deeply, and it's just these sort of confrontational smear-campaign type posts why I thought I had learned not to use these forums any more. I am trying to get advice not criticism. I will look elsewhere.

 Quote:

But a dog is still a dog, and she makes mistakes!

Not mine. They're machines and I'm the head mechanic.

"As for making decisions, that is only under the right circumstances. For instance; a guide dog only makes independent decisions while the handle is being held by the blind person. Once dropped, the dog must become complient. Waliking when the handle is dropped is done in heel, not sniffing or wandering at the end of the leash. In fact, unless the harness is removed, no sniffing is allowed."

--You don't know the first thing about my dog's job, or her working tasks- she's not even a Guide Dog!

--Also, had you read my other posts you would see that it's not as if I ALLOW her to keep on doing this sort of crap! She just wishes she didn't have to! so what?!

Never mind, I'm just angry and spewing my mouth. I'll just unsubscribe from this forum, I ought to have known better in the first place. If any moderators read this please feel free to get rid of my screen name.

 Quote: juliana goodwin

... The school she came from is excellent, and I would never in a million years but their name on here for you people to smear them. ...
I resent this sort of crap deeply, and it's just these sort of confrontational smear-campaign type posts why I thought I had learned not to use these forums any more. I am trying to get advice not criticism. I will look elsewhere.

"You people"?

That's something I resent deeply.


Or did everyone replying offend you similarly?

 Quote: juliana goodwin

... I wonder- is it a liekly thing that I could work on her for self control at allowing him to play without her building up frustration over it and going after him to vent. For now they are simply seperated with toys. ...

I don't know about "venting," but no, I don't think that's easily doable.

Others may have different ideas, though.