lisa harrison wrote 12/29/2009 07:02 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Dennis Jones ] #260435 - 12/29/2009 07:02 PM
lisa harrison Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2007 Posts: 315 Loc: Southern States Offline	Krystal, You hit the nail on the head. The owner treats all her dogs like little humans and does not believe in corrections. She was considering putting her 8 year old dog down because she was the one being aggressive toward the new dog, however the newer dog being aggressive to all the other dogs in the pack. I suggested she rehome the new dog to a home with no other pets or contact a canine behaviorist or dog trainer experienced with dog on dog aggression. It bothers me that she feeds them all together, leaves toys down all day and leaves the dogs together during the day while she goes to work. I suggested she seperate them but she claims she can't. This seems like an accident waiting to happen.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/29/2009 07:05 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Will Rambeau ] #260436 - 12/29/2009 07:05 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Will Rambeau Lisa, I've read a few studies regarding medication useage to curb severe aggression ( under clinical guidence ) and the most favorable outcomes were with the SSRI class of meds - with the old standard Prozac being the most studied. I had a few of my clients dogs in the past started on that medication and it help some ( the results varied, of course ) with about 50% of the dogs showing some type of behavior change. While I think that it would be useless without a co-current training and management regime, I wouldn't say no to its use in dogs with severe behavioral issues. SAM-e (S-adenosylmethionine) is being studied for dogs too. Now this is something I'm very interested in because of knowing more than one person who was able to get off Prozac or Paxil or other SSRI med permanently with a switch to SAM-e.
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Dennis Jones wrote 12/29/2009 07:08 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Will Rambeau ] #260438 - 12/29/2009 07:08 PM
Dennis Jones Webboard User Reg: 06-13-2004 Posts: 3389 Loc: Richmond Va Offline	Quote: Will Rambeau Lisa, I've read a few studies regarding medication useage to curb severe aggression ( under clinical guidence ) and the most favorable outcomes were with the SSRI class of meds - with the old standard Prozac being the most studied. I had a few of my clients dogs in the past started on that medication and it help some ( the results varied, of course ) with about 50% of the dogs showing some type of behavior change. While I think that it would be useless without a co-current training and management regime, I wouldn't say no to its use in dogs with severe behavioral issues. does anybody do a behaviour modification and drug therapy? I don't think I've seen that done with people let alone dogs. not saying it won't work. anybody got a link to a clinic, human or animal, that has some success with that regimin?
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lisa harrison wrote 12/29/2009 07:17 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Dennis Jones ] #260440 - 12/29/2009 07:17 PM
lisa harrison Webboard User Reg: 08-02-2007 Posts: 315 Loc: Southern States Offline	I had a GSD that had severe seperation anxiety. She was prescribed Clomicalm by the Vet. I worked with her for about a year modifying her behavior and weaning her off the drug. It took alot of patience but was very successful. She was a great pet dog for many years afterward until she died of cancer at age 14.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/29/2009 07:19 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Dennis Jones ] #260441 - 12/29/2009 07:19 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: Dennis Jones  Quote: Will Rambeau .... While I think that it would be useless without a co-current training and management regime, I wouldn't say no to its use in dogs with severe behavioral issues. does anybody do a behaviour modification and drug therapy? I don't think I've seen that done with people let alone dogs. not saying it won't work. anybody got a link to a clinic, human or animal, that has some success with that regimin? QUOTE: As with many humans, it is believed many behavior problems in the dog stem from disorders in brain function. Recognition of such disorders and the neurochemicals that determine behavioral patterns has led to the development of strategic approaches to treatment that involve a combination of pharmacotherapy with behavior modification training. These more specific pharmacologic interventions can accelerate and enhance the benefits of behavior modification by targeting specific neurotransmitters of the central nervous system. at http://www.medi-vet.com/Separation%20Anxiety%20in%20Dogs.html QUOTE: Behavioral medication alone isn’t usually effective for resolving a behavior problem. For the dog, medication serves to make a situation tolerable but not necessarily acceptable. Behavior modification can then be used to make the situation acceptable. For instance, if a dog is afraid of thunder storms, medication can ease the dog’s fear enough that he can tolerate the storm and undergo the counterconditioning necessary to treat his fear. But it’s the counterconditioning that helps him overcome his fear. In addition, many dogs can develop behavior habits because of a problem that requires medication. The medication can help the core problem, but behavior modification is still necessary to treat the accompanying behavior habits. at http://www.aspcabehavior.org/articles/47/Behavioral-Medications-for-Dogs-.aspx There was an article (I think early 2009) in WDJ on medication+modification. I'll see if I can find the issue.
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Jenni Williams wrote 12/29/2009 07:27 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #260444 - 12/29/2009 07:27 PM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	There is a big difference between trying to help a dog with SEVERE behavioral issues as Will mentioned via ALL tools available, and trying to turn every dog who acts like a DOG into a zombie w/head drugs rather than retrain it. From what Lisa said, this unfortunately sounds like the latter...as is the case w/my neighbor's dogs. The dog now stares at lights...even if they are not on. I find it very hard to believe that every single dog a person owns needs medication (as is the case next door), unless the *owner* is, as my sister would say, "bat $h!+ crazy."
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Dennis Jones wrote 12/29/2009 07:37 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Jenni Williams ] #260446 - 12/29/2009 07:37 PM
Dennis Jones Webboard User Reg: 06-13-2004 Posts: 3389 Loc: Richmond Va Offline	Quote: Jenni Williams There The dog now stares at lights...even if they are not on. you wouldn't happen to know the name of that med would you? -Dennis... firm beliver in better living thru chemistry... Seriously, I burned a lot of time and energy on a dog with nerve issues, if someone told me he had to take Prozac or Fukitol for the rest of his life and if he didn't he wold be a danger to other living things then I would of more then likely had him PTS.
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Sheila Buckley wrote 12/29/2009 07:50 PM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Dennis Jones ] #260447 - 12/29/2009 07:50 PM
Sheila Buckley Webboard User Reg: 07-14-2007 Posts: 1243 Loc: Offline	Here you go Dennis. The first study is what you asked for; the second one doesn't pertain to therapy but to the effects of ownership on an animal's behavior. And a little advice about the tequila, drink alone http://veterinaryrecord.bvapublications.com/cgi/content/abstract/145/13/365 http://research.vet.upenn.edu/Portals/36/media/Jagoe_Serpell_owner_characteristics.pdf
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Jenni Williams wrote 12/30/2009 02:56 AM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Dennis Jones ] #260466 - 12/30/2009 02:56 AM
Jenni Williams Webboard User Reg: 10-06-2005 Posts: 2686 Loc: llinois Offline	Quote: Dennis Jones  Quote: Jenni Williams There The dog now stares at lights...even if they are not on. you wouldn't happen to know the name of that med would you? -Dennis... firm beliver in better living thru chemistry... Seriously, I burned a lot of time and energy on a dog with nerve issues, if someone told me he had to take Prozac or Fukitol for the rest of his life and if he didn't he wold be a danger to other living things then I would of more then likely had him PTS. Drug is generic Prozac, God knows the dosage. Keeps a big bottle on hand for all the dogs, her husband, and her daughter, too. I $h!+ you not. I hear ya on the rest of your post about the nervebag. PTS would be my answer as well. I don't believe that's a happy animal.
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Angela Burrell wrote 12/30/2009 08:51 AM Re: Medicating for aggression [Re: Jenni Williams ] #260476 - 12/30/2009 08:51 AM
Angela Burrell Webboard User Reg: 05-10-2006 Posts: 2273 Loc: Ontario, Canada Offline	Great articles, Sheila. Thanks for posting them.
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