For this situation, I don't have a problem so much w/a physical correction, but how is he supposed to learn about fence and neighbor behavior at your house if he's at hers??

Well I'm supposed to come out there and work with them near the end of the "Bootcamp". Apparently she just rehabillitated a pitbull that attacked a GSD puppy, crushed it's jaw nearly killed it. I think the PB is back with the family and the puppy. She said it sounds like Bolt he has fear aggression and that's is what I think as well. I've contacted my Dog Club and another one called Paw Power Blues and they don't really do private training or work with biting dogs, in fact my club refers very aggresive dogs to this woman's kennel. I can send a link to the website if anyone wants to check it out. I will ask her about the fence and neighbor behavior. I think that is going to have to be like Sheila said me correcting him and perhaps putting him on a tieout when the kids let him out so he can't reach the fence. He really only uses the bathroom 2or 3x a day since he's on raw. He really just wants to go out and play. I still may just go to her and have the private training. He's afraid of men that's the underlying problem that makes him react so. He doesn't bark at children or females. Also the only part at the front is on the side of the garage that is a fence gate going accross the driveway to the polebarn. My neighbor often walks to his own polebarn , or (in warm weather) takes out his Harley and that's when Bolt barks at him. He has to ride it up his driveway to the street which is right along the side of our fence. His pole barn is behind his house so his driveway is close to our fence. BTW he's the dog all the way on the right in the picture on the dog bed.

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When I let him out he has to have a Kong or something in his mouth or he bites my labx. He didn't have a toy when he bit my neighbor. He looks for his toy on his way out. It's almost like he knows he needs something to chew on or he can't control himself.

I wanted to respond to this. You need to start working on calm behavior coming out of the crate. He needs to learn that just because he is excited it doesn't mean he can go take it out on another dog. And that coming out of the crate is not free for all time.

Don't let him out until he is calm and focused on you. As soon as he gets out have him sit and refocus. Go through some basic OB work for a minute or two. Set up a new routine for going outside. Right now he's already aroused before he gets outside. Have him sit at the door, then heel outside to potty, then start structured playtime/OB work with him.

He sounds like he needs alot of structure and boundaries in his life. Right now, everything should be structured. If you've never gone through the adult dog groundwork (outlined on this site) start now.

How many hours are you gone for at a time? Is there any way your kids can either leave him in the crate or just take him out on a leash to potty then put him back in the crate?

I admittedly didn't read all this as carefully as I probably should've, but I keep skimming it looking for a reason why this trainer thinks it's "fear aggression." You know him better than she does, obviously, and you say you agree.Why?

I do not call a dog biting a stranger for breaking into his property to steal something (you call it borrowing a backhoe, I'm putting it how the dog sees it) "fear aggression." I call that a good/normal dog.

Are you absolutely positive it's that he's afraid of men and not something else? Perhaps he simply views men as more of a potential threat? He wouldn't be the first dog to do this. Why should he bark at children? From what you describe, you have a very difficult situation regarding your property for a dog to be able to decipher neighbor on own property from neighbor on yours. Again, I say normal dog.

I agree w/Mara about the exercise and mental stimulation. I guess my point about the "fear aggression" is to make very sure that's what it is before you train/correct him for such, because if you're missing the true cause (territorial would be my guess from the limited info.), you are just going to cause this whole process to be much longer by not identifying the true trigger in the first place.

Maybe I'm missing something, but he sounds like a pretty normal dog in a not so normal circumstance, and not really a problem dog so much. Not to say I wouldn't work with him; of course I would, and I would do it often...just saying he might not be as "broken" as you think. ;-) Fence and neighbor problems can apply to all sorts of normal dogs displaying normal dog behavior.

My point in saying this is so you aren't too quick to dismiss him as not fitting your situation. I would say if your other dogs are ok w/all this, then they're the exception, not the rule. I can assure you no one comes on my property w/out me knowing it, and if they dared even try to open a gate, they'd never open another one b/c they'd be missing the necessary appendages.

I am starting to think he's not as broken as everyone around me seems to think. He tried to bite my husband the first 3 weeks I had him. I had to keep him tetherd to me and learn the signs of his escaltion and then stop him before he got too far. I don't even let him bark at people going by when he looks out the window. He has always charged at men barking. My father in law coming outside, husband in the truck in the backyard. He never bit them. I should have started correcting this right away. The neighbor said he didn't bark at him just ran up and bit him and then ran away I read one of the ebooks about aggression on this site and granted it was about a dog displaying dog aggression , but what Ed said was to yank him hard and it wasn't for the faint at heart. I took him out and left him on the prong on a line today. He acts like a complete angel. He's calm on the way to the door and outside. He seems to know the consequences of the prong. I waited for my husband to come up the stairs as he will charge barking at him until he gets close. I don't get that as he knows him. Last night my son came home and he saw him come in the front door and charged barking and then stopped when he got closer to him. So now I'm thinking what if I keep him on the prong in the house, outside, everywhere but the crate and give him that severe correction when he does the charge. Let me explain why I think it's fear aggression. Whenever you raise something above his head he flinches and does the flight mode. Any sudden movement (it's getting better with me) and he flinches and is ready to bolt. When he bit the guy it was in the hand and he ran away. I've been saying to my husband he was protecting the property. That the guy shoudn't have come in without anyone out there and he's going to have to not treat our yard like it's his own. It's only reasonable. He's the one saying that dog is going to hurt someone. I was thinking I could just take him to this womans OB class and get him socialized and do the correction for charging at people at home. The family knows and has agreed they all have to do their part or the dog will have to be returned to the rescue ( I have never "gotten rid " of a dog and hope to never have to..
I do have one question-If I correct him outside when the guy comes out of his house, what's to stop him from associating the fear of correction to the fear of the guy? Couldn't he end up hating the neighbor even more? As far as him being calm in the crate I try and he sits but then still gets excited. He will pee in the cage rather than be calm enough to let out. He seems to be calmable(That is able to calm more easily) the less the time he has been in the cage. There was one time I can remember that he became completely calm. I'm going to have to work on my own calmness as I remember I had a really calm feeling. I've tried to reinact it and he has never gotten as calm since, but at least I know it's possible. I was trying to have my daughter do this before she let's him out and she was the one that complained he pees if she does that and never get's calm. I'm sure I can have her keep trying , but I don't know if it will hurt his training more than harm it. If they put him back in the cage after they are home he trys to break out of the cage. I had to put him in a bigger better cage as the one I had him in as the one I had him in was a cheaper walmart cage. I would come home and he would have somehow pushed the tray out. I can't have anything near the cage or he will get it and pull it in and eat it. The couch was next to it and he somehow dug through the sides and started to damage it. I saw him do it so I have moved it away from the couch. The Christmas Tree displaced the original cage location. It's coming down so I will be able to put it back in the corner. THe kids know he can only go out on a leash with HS prong. It's been so cold he doesn't even want to go out.

Well, that's certainly some more useful information. Actually flinching when you raise a hand or anything else typically stems from abuse. I hate how everyone says every submissive dog has "been abused" but if you have a dog who reacts this way to anything raised around him, chances are he's been hit. Chances are even greater he was hit by a man.

I'm sorry; how long have you owned him???

I had a dog like this and it got better with time and exposure to men who did not beat her. When I first got her, she would literally run under my car if she saw a man who looked a certain way. Gradually, that disappeared, but any yelling by a man would bring it right back instantly.

I guess my gut says this boy has problems due to experience, not genetics. That's a good thing, IMO.

As for the rest of, it, I'm going to leave alone b/c I have never had a dog who was aggressive for the same reason. Mine have always just been jerks, LOL, so I didn't have the same correction worries.

I've had him since June 20th. He was rescued from the Gary pound and had been picked up on the street. He looks like a breeding mishap. Some have said he may have been a bait dog that got away. His tailed is curved and looks as if it's been broken and healed crooked. He's ears are half there, don't know if it was from dogs fights or frostbite. I think frostbite , because I think a bait dog would have been really scarred. I'm going to try and put a close up on photobucket.

Here's a close up . No tail pic though yet. They named him Bolt at the rescue because his tail is shaped like a z http://i939.photobucket.com/albums/ad238/Mishy911_2009/BoltandSalem.jpg

I agree with you- Bait dogs are usually severely scarred.... Like REALLY bad. And are utterly petrified by the presence of another dog, curling up in complete shut-down or flight mode. That looks like a tear on the ear to me. And pretty well cared for after because of the clean edge on it. I've seen uglier edges on crops done by professionals that just had horrid after-care. That looks like it was someone's pet. Maybe just really retarded owner.

Both his ears are kind of scalloped in. The left one you can't see from that pic that well but where it flops there is a big part missing. They think he was outside over the winter that's why I was thinking more of a frostbite factor than a bait, of course he may have been in fights while on the street. There is quite a large loose dog population in Gary.