Quote: Debbie Dibble

I wanted some opinions on raw diet only vs kibble and raw diet together. What I heard is feeding raw and kibble together is bad in the way of kibble food is digested much slower and theres a risk of the raw getting bacteria in the stomach befor it gets the chance to digest because of the kibble slowing down the digestive process. Any body eles heard that. I dont think my dogs would even eat kibble now after being on the raw diet, unless maybe I starved them first.

Heard that? Yes, and agree with it, too!

I will see if I can link you to a discussion of this. I'm sorry to see so many other boards advocating the mixture as if the slow transit time of kibble did not allow pathogens in raw time to colonize, because I disagree wholeheartedly. It won't hurt most dogs, probably, but I think that it's just not worth courting the disaster that can result.

Similarly, I don't give an antacid to a dog and continue to feed raw, because I don't want to alter the caustic stomach acid that is another aspect of the dog's ability to deal with food pathogens.

e.t.a.

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=33&Number=248711&Searchpage=1&Main=23947&Words=kibble+Alyssa+Myracle&topic=0&Search=true#Post248711





Edited by Connie Sutherland (01/07/2010 11:50 AM)
Edit reason: eta

I agree, doesnt make sense to me either to mix them. I just noticed alot of people are. Thanks

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. I have some new things to think about now. My parents don't smoke in the house but we do outside or in the car. However, since he's in the car every day I'd expect him to itch every day if he were allergic to something in the smoke...just thinking out loud.

Detergents/dust mites are other good points you guys brought up. I am going to pay closer attention to what my mom is cleaning his crate/other areas with etc. Since there is basically no dust ever in that house I think I can not worry about mites...but I could be wrong there? I just realized also that I have cats in my apartment...another thing to think about! I'm sure I carry some cat hair with me.

Connie, thanks once again for the encyclopedic knowledge. You never come across to me in a negative way, thank you for sharing the result of your experiences and research. I didn't realize the more-than-one-exposure connection, so that will help me a lot. Just want to point out the CA Naturals Lamb & Rice has 2 ingredients plus vitamins/minerals...it's a pretty limited ingredient list. Of course there could be something in that formulation he is allergic to, but we have found that with the basic combo of that, pumpkin and the Wellness 95% lamb only he doesn't get itchy.

I know it's hard to relay the results of months and months of testing in a few posts. I will perform the search you suggested and read the link you gave us. Thank you everybody!

Oh, I'm sorry ... you are absolutely correct that I didn't pick up the fact that you are giving limited-ingredient foods.


Were you able to observe several weeks' worth of no itching when he was on just the lamb and rice?

If so, then I'd conclude that this isn't the case:
"Of course there could be something in that formulation he is allergic to"


Has he ever had a long stretch with all good log-poops?

Have you ever seen even one flea on him? Or any flea dirt (like pepper that turns dark red if you put a drop of water on it)?

Has he ever had a skin scraping done?

Do his ear flap edges look ragged at all?

BTW, I'd tend to agree that if he is in a car with people smoking every day but not itching every day, it's not likely to be the smoke.

If I were going to continue the food-challenge protocol, BTW, I'd probably start over with a few weeks of just the limited-ingredient food to make sure that there is no itching on it, then re-do the provocative challenges with more than one bite of each item.

Thanks Connie! I'll try to make sure I answer your questions.
I can't say we went several weeks with absolutely nothing else fed--more like one week or so in several different rounds. So that is definitely something we can do to become more certain about food vs. other triggers.

We've never seen a flea or evidence of a flea, and I don't think his ear edges look ragged at all, I will double check however. We haven't had a skin scraping done.

So far, when we have been introducing foods one at a time I do it for 2 or 3 days as a minimum, and I use a sizable quantity, rather than just a bite of something. The only reason I would stop after 2 days is very bad itching, because I don't want to make him suffer that much for the sake of being able to eat 'x' item, know what I mean? Usually I will wait for the itching to subside, then try a particular item again sometime later for another 2 or 3 days just to be more sure that the item is the culprit.

About poos--he's always had trouble in this department. Initially our vet diagnosed giardia and treated him for that for 4 different rounds. In those days he was having actual diarrhea when not on the medication (panacur and metronidazole). At that time we requested another fecal because we were doubting the diagnosis and our breeder suggested coccidia. So we medicated him for coccidia and the diarrhea finally went away. Those days his poos were still always pudding, but somewhere along the way he started to have normal poos in the morning and sometimes in the afternoon, with the rest puddingish. That's how he is today still.

Two things to add from my experience with Kasey. He also had messed up poops when he was on kibble - we tried every kind of kibble out there and we couldn't get firm, regular poops out of him. Once we went off kibble and started raw (which we did cold turkey), his poops straightened right out for the first time in his life -he was 1 1/2 yrs old then. Now he's 3 yrs old and still doing well.

I also had a comment about baths. Kasey is an environmental allergy dog. The derma vet recommends WEEKLY baths for dogs with allergies - flea and environmental. I asked about the 'dry skin' thing, but she said that if you are bathing a dog with a good shampoo that is made for dogs (correct ph balance), it's not going to make much difference in the dryness of your dog's skin - but it will wash off the fleas, molds, pollens, etc that your dog picks up. Having those things building up on your dogs skin allows them to breath in all those allergens and causes more itching. For that reason, it's much more advantageous to bath more frequently. Dry skin is often a result of poor diet anyway - salmon oil got rid of Kasey's dry skin completely!

Remember also, food allergies are rare - less than 10% of dogs have food allergies. The kibble companies like to make us think different - it's big business! Flea is #1 and environmental is #2 in your consideration of itching.

 Quote: lori hall

The derma vet recommends WEEKLY baths for dogs with allergies - flea and environmental. I asked about the 'dry skin' thing, but she said that if you are bathing a dog with a good shampoo that is made for dogs (correct ph balance), it's not going to make much difference in the dryness of your dog's skin - but it will wash off the fleas, molds, pollens, etc that your dog picks up. Having those things building up on your dogs skin allows them to breath in all those allergens and causes more itching. For that reason, it's much more advantageous to bath more frequently. Dry skin is often a result of poor diet anyway - salmon oil got rid of Kasey's dry skin completely!

Big huge ditto. Shawn Messonnier in http://leerburg.com/971.htm was the first vet I read who urged getting all the pollen, dust, molds, etc., off the dog frequently, and says very firmly that the benefits of this mechanical removal of allergens from the coat so they are not being inhaled 24/7 far outweigh any risk of "dry skin," which he agrees is not an issue if you use correct-pH shampoo. He also says that a very good rinse every other day during the dog's worst season (if it's seasonal) is a good step.

I have my allergic dog walk through a basin of clean water on his way in from all summer and fall walks or work on grass.

I keep unscented baby wipes by the door too.

A lightbulb came on over my head when I read this. I can't imagine where my common sense was before.

Just my experience with my dog who has environmental allergy, I　ｕｓｅ　Vet Solutions Aloe & Oatmeal Shampoo，　it is soap-free. I bathe her every 5-7 days in the warmer days, and every 7-10 dogs in the winter. No problem with dry skin at all.