Hey Debbie, are you saying you don't actualy know anything about sport or protection and you are trying to learn?

No I wouldnt say that I dont know any thing, and yes I'm trying to learn. How about you

I'm always trying to learn too. I've just spent the last 15minutes trying to figure out what you're talking about.

Never mind sniping at people Debbie.

I, for one, am looking to learn about about how you advocate this difference in bite work foundation and what other trainers you're talking about.

I don't understand what possible differences you can be referring to. Makes no difference if the targeted item is a sleeve or suite or a tug. Or if the stick is a SchH stick or a clatter stick. Many good dogs have a geneticlly hard,, calm, full bite. Yes many of them are in SchH training, but no means all of them. It is desirable but not mandatory in civil work. The dog just needs to be able to bit hard & hold on for a aprehension. I have done alot of both SchH & civil work with with my dogs. I would be interested in learning these differences in foundation training that you are referring to. Maybe I have missed something. I am no expert & I am always open to new & looking to learn new ways & styles of trainng my dogs.

 Quote: Anne Jones

I have done alot of both SchH & civil work with with my dogs.

Debbie, I learned something here years ago that has stood me in very good stead. I find out who knows what they're talking about (and you've received responses from several of them right on this thread; everyone who has responded to you knows what s/he's talking about), I ask questions, and I grab the info and run, not paying any attention at all to the way the answers are phrased or whether my feelings were ignored in them. This board is about the dogs and not about the humans. That's a good thing!

I want to also say that if someone like Will with his many, many years of experience is at a loss for these fundamentals to which you are referring, then the rest of us are really at a loss.

I'm not trying to be snippy. You guys are being so defensive about a personal preference or a opinion. I had a sch3 gsd I bought it from Germany. This is just an example of what I'm talking about. Anyway he was great at hitting on a sleeve. If he seen a sleeve he would go crazy. I had a trainer that did a real scenario of breaking in my house grabbing me, and the dog was confused because he wasnt use to that kind of scene. He wasnt sure of himself at all. The male I have now has had shutzhund training, he is a tracking fool, his obedience is lacking, which is my fault. I honestly can say he is the same way as the other dog he's great in the setting he is use to, But i'm not even 50% sure that he would protect under a real type threat situation. there has to be a difference in training or eles there wouldnt be a transition that you would have to do with the dog to go to civil work. Read some of Eds stuff on civil work. Unless I'm reading it wrong. regardless your feed back could of been to help. . Its ok though I've got pretty thick skin.

Debbie, I hope that Will is able to respond to this last posting of yours. He is the in-house expert on PPD training. I will only say that not all dogs that do SchH are capable of responding even with training to real life scenarios. You can train for it, but it takes a certain kind of dog to reliably do this kind of work under real threat to the owner & themselves. And frankly most owners would not want to live the way they would have to with this level of dog in order to own one or have the liability that this kind of dog presents.

But but but Debbie,
No one is being defensive, we're all open to different training techniques.
So again, where and how does this fork happen?