Thanks for the responses everyone. I have quite a bit of experience with dogs. I have both of the puppy videos. The quote above has nothing to do with biting a child, it says 'going near' a child. Here is another quote:

"The shaking should be strong enough to make the pup scream. You need to get his attention and he needs to understand that you are not playing with him. This requires a shaking that is strong enough to put him into avoidance. His scream should have some fear in it."

Ed also says in these articles that if you do not shake the pup hard enough he will think you're playing with him. This is not the problem here. The problem is that he bit me at an inappropriate time, and the correction makes him want to bite me. I have been trying to change my own experience to what Ed has suggested in his videos and articles. I am also open to what you are saying here.

But I have to say that the suggestion you made of two small shakes would do nothing for this puppy. That is what I tried first, he thinks I am playing, he play bites me. And afterwards he went right back to what he was doing. I have seen trainers at seminars give this sort of shake to a puppy a month older than mine, and it can work. But what if it doesn't, what if that correction just causes the pup to want to bite you?

What would you do if you tried this small shake and the dog growled and bit you? Again, I was not trying to punish the dog for peeing, I picked him up by the scruff after I said no and he bit me. The biting is what caused the correction. There seems to be some conflicting information here. No corrections or mild corrections, and what to do when the mild correction means nothing to the puppy? If you're on the side of no corrections for a young pup, then when do you start the corrections? And if you're on the side of mild corrections then what do you do with the puppy when he just playbites as you correct him?

Since he's a Dogo, he's probably a decent size at 12 weeks, correct? Try correcting him w/a leash then. He sounds like he has good temperament; I like a dog who will fight back. The problem is though you claim to have lots of experience with dogs, you have a 12 week old who is not housebroken, and you're using corrections often enough that now when you simply go to pick him up to carry him outside, he fights you.

YOU did this. I like the punishment to fit the crime. The quote you keep falling back on about "going near a child" I am sure is referring to going near a child w/ill intent, or going near a child he/she has repeatedly tried to bite, etc. I'm sure he doesn't mean to shake the hell out of a puppy for going near a child. I think there's a certain amount of logical reading between the lines that needs to be done here.

You're bullying him, and one day he's not going to take it. Then, he's going to turn against you big time, and he'll probably be euthanized for it. Sorry, but this is what I see in the future if you don't change IMMEDIATELY and start repairing what you've broken. He is NOT EVEN TWELVE WEEKS OLD.

I think you have abused physical corrections to the point where's he losing what little respect he may have had, and the fighting will only escalate. BTW, not only can you scare and hurt him by shaking him too hard, you can kill him, just like you can a baby.

And thanks Kristel, I only saw your post after I wrote the above. I have read all of these articles, some of them a few times, and have 5 different videos. My last dog had no problem being picked up by the scruff to be carried, but I can change that easily if people think it's a problem. I think I would be willing to try positive only training while he is a puppy, but really want to sort out what people are thinking here, when people start giving corrections and what people do when the normal correction doesn't work. I know I'm asking a lot of questions, but I'm interested in what people do themselves. And it's good to know that people think I have gone too far. Maybe it's what I need to shift gears a little. I'll go through a bunch of the articles again as well.

Michael, for background purposes, I don't do positive-only training. I'm not someone who doesn't think you should correct a dog for bad behavior.I am a firm believer in a well-placed, well-deserved, well-executed correction. I have had dogs I've had to give very serious corrections to, dogs I've had to hang, choke out, etc. So, please don't think I'm just a softie overreacting. Your initial post sounds like you're losing your temper and fighting WITH A PUPPY. He's just a puppy. Be clear about what's expected, if he fights you, try to diffuse the situation, don't feed into it.

Check out Micheal Ellis: power of training dogs with food. i really wish this was out when i got my pup. there is a lot of good info to improve the relationship with your dog and to make him feel good about coming near you again as it focuses a lot on engagement. Can't add anything else that hadn't already been said.

Rob

Thanks, Jenni. I'm not looking to argue with you but you're manipulating what is said. I've had the pup for a week and a half, so I don't think one mistake of peeing on the floor makes me inexperienced. This was the first mistake in a couple days. When I go to pick up my puppy to take him outside he is calm, stands tall and wags his tail and will lick my face once I start carrying him. He does not fight me just because I try to pick him up, that would suggest I was doing something very wrong. I still don't get how being bitten during a correction means I am doing something wrong. I have used very few corrections, less than one a day. Again, he had the fight in him to bite after a correction before I got him. I will admit that I could be making this situation worse depending on what I do, and perhaps it would be best to focus on pack structure, slowly introducing corrections later.

Jenni, again. I didn't assume either way with your dog training. Perhaps at a young age if a pup bites during a correction it is best to remain calm and just use space to show who's boss, as opposed to increasing force? And your dog is great looking.

Rob. This dog has a lot of food drive so that would likely be an excellent video. I'll look into it, thanks.

 Quote: robert kirkwood

Check out Micheal Ellis: power of training dogs with food. i really wish this was out when i got my pup. there is a lot of good info to improve the relationship with your dog and to make him feel good about coming near you again as it focuses a lot on engagement. Can't add anything else that hadn't already been said.

Rob

Great suggestion!

Also, maybe we can defuse the thread with a focus on what we DO do, in detail, with each situation (peeing inside and biting our hands) with a 12-week-old puppy.

I'll start. I make sure the dog is outside when he needs to be. There is no correction aspect of potty training for me. If I have screwed up and the dog starts to lift a leg or squat indoors, I get him outdoors and party hearty for finishing outdoors. If I didn't see the accident, then why didn't I? Why wasn't the dog under my direct supervision (such as, tethered to my jeans belt-loop)?

I make sure he's outside long enough to empty out (and it's not always a one-squirt run ), I praise like crazy, and if I err in the number of trips, it's on the side of too-frequent and not the other way around. I set the alarm at night for a while, too. I set the dog up for success by never making him have a full bladder indoors at this age, when he is just learning bladder control (and has now experienced mysterious and scary happenings surrounding his natural functions).

A party with praise and petting for good potty is a good thing.

(I've always remembered something Ed said once, which was that even with his full-grown dogs, long past potty-training age, he will still occasionally praise for "good outside," and his rationale was "why not?" )


It's our fault when a puppy is indoors instead of out when he has to go.

 Quote: Michael Pugsley

.... Should I be giving any sort of corrections if he pees on the floor? ....

No.

Didn't know you've only had the pup a week and a half. I misread the first post. That changes things considerably. I assumed you'd had him for a month or so, the way you talked about "when you first got him" how he let you scruff him and was ok w/it. I admit I got a bit hung up on the part where you talk about being strong enough to shake him hard enough not being a problem.

Well, if that's the case, then CHILL. A week and a half is nothing! Let the poor thing settle in before you worry about correcting him so hard you're afraid of hurting him!

I'm not manipulating what's said at all. Just reacting to how I read it.

I'm done.

I am a bit of a softee, but only in terms of doling out corrections. Effective and a appropriate methods fall toward both ends of the scale on this board, but still within a certain range.

I use corrections VERY sparingly because I have observed that by doing so, they have much more of an impact. My dog rarely receives a correction, so when he does it's very clear why and it's memorable to him. I don't find myself needing to give harder and harder corrections because he isn't insensitive to them (in spite of being a fairly hard dog) due to repetition.

I have had dogs with much bigger attitudes than my current fellow and the same held true for them as well. Just my personal preference.

I'm a small person with a big dog, and find it easier and much more efficient to control him mentally than physically. I've enjoyed the process of training with his cooperation, and so has he. I love that he's into learning instead of focusing his energy on resistance. I really like it that way, and can still control my dog's behavior with a look or a word. No intimidation necessary.

I like the idea of focusing on pack structure. It's very clear to the dog, and still very non-confrontational.