I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, NO serious dog trainer (by serious I mean involved in dog sports) would ever be able to exclusively use compulsion training and stand on the podium at the end of the event. Dogs only have three choices when dealing with complusion stressors - Retaliate, Shut down (often confused for compliance), or ignore the handler.... None of which will earn you any trophies!

 Quote: lisa brazeau

.... NO serious dog trainer (by serious I mean involved in dog sports) .... Dogs only have three choices when dealing with complusion stressors - Retaliate, Shut down (often confused for compliance), or ignore the handler....

Well, I'm pretty sure that there are serious trainers who are not involved in dog sports, too , but also I think the term "shut down" refers not to the dog complying out of fear, but to doing nothing ("shutting down").

Just clarifying.

The first real dog training classes I attended were through Guide Dogs of America about 13 years ago when we raised a puppy for them. They taught us training through the choke chain yanking method and it proved nothing but frustrating for me and the poor dog I was raising. I wasn't seeing a whole lot of enthusiasm from the other puppy raisers and dogs either. Our dog failed due to a medical problem (allergies), so we kept her. I don't know if they have changed their method, I hope so. She never did learn heel/loose leash walking till she was 6 yr old and just started slowing down and walking closer to my leg on her own.

I knew no other way until I found this website, and so I am relearning how to train using marker training with Ed's DVD's. We love it and I would never go back to correction training. Kasey is enthusiastic and happy in his training times. There is a lot to learn, but it's fun!

I started with compulsion training about 14 years ago and looked at food rewards as bribes until I stumbled upon Leerburg about one year ago. For the last year of my 14 year old dog's life I retrained him with markers and saw a huge improvement in our relationship and his willingness to please. With my current 16mo. old dog I've been using mostly markers with small amounts of compulsion in the form of leash pressure (ie: go with the pressure and you get praised/rewarded) and only using corrections, during training, for things I know he understands. Those corrections are always as light as possible and often a vocal correction is all that's needed. I trained the recall the way Ed teaches in the Basic Ob dvd, which includes a "beat the pop" phase, too.

I also feel that there are times when a good correction is needed to deal with an immediate and unforeseen situation, then go back and deal with it using marker training. Those situations I would consider unwarranted aggression where vocal commands are being ignored and blatantly disrespectful behavior. Sometimes it's just a small "hey, don't do that" pop and other times, like aggression towards a child (hasn't been an issue for many, many moons thanks to marker training and socialization), I want him to know that the sky will fall if he ever even thinks about doing that again. From there, I analyze what happened, run through some scenarios in my head, and try to find a positive training solution.

Do I have room for improvement through gained knowledge and experience? Absolutely! However, one thing I've learned in 21 years of being a musician is that you have to make mistakes in order to truly learn something and learn how to work through mistakes. Another thing music has taught me is that it's not so much finding what works as finding what doesn't work. All the book knowledge in the world is useless without the experience (the name we give our mistakes in life) of practical application. In this case, what works for your dog might not work for mine and neither may for work for the guy down the street.

 Quote: Lisa Brazeau

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, NO serious dog trainer (by serious I mean involved in dog sports) would ever be able to exclusively use compulsion training and stand on the podium at the end of the event. Dogs only have three choices when dealing with complusion stressors - Retaliate, Shut down (often confused for compliance), or ignore the handler.... None of which will earn you any trophies!

I'm sad to say that you're wrong there, there have been *plenty* of high level dog/handler teams up on the podums that used compulsion almost entirely, if not exclusively.
It happens a lot less nowadays, but those trainers and their dogs, still win championships - let's not kid ourselves here, ok?

Maybe I should have been more specific...... I did mean in modern times (ie today's ringsports). Even the old school Schutzhund Clubs are making the switch to positive motivational methods. Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of those 'positive ONLY' types. Refusals = Corrections in my book, but as far as teaching skills, motivational training trumps compulsion every day of the week.

 Quote: Lisa Brazeau

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say, NO serious dog trainer (by serious I mean involved in dog sports) would ever be able to exclusively use compulsion training and stand on the podium at the end of the event. Dogs only have three choices when dealing with complusion stressors - Retaliate, Shut down (often confused for compliance), or ignore the handler.... None of which will earn you any trophies!

He's not involved with any dog sports, he's taken a 6 week master trainer course in BC and since then enjoys working with a number of dogs, most of which are aggressive in one way or another, towards either other animals, dogs or people. He uses the alpha roll method with dogs that show aggression.....

 Quote: Amy Wilkinson

.... he's taken a 6 week master trainer course ... since then enjoys working with a number of dogs, most of which are aggressive in one way or another ... He uses the alpha roll method with dogs that show aggression.....

Run.

JMHO.

 Quote: Amy Wilkinson

.... working with a number of dogs, most of which are aggressive in one way or another ...

Amy, are you looking at aggression issues too, or just looking for basic ob training, or what?