My dog is 14 months now. I got her at 10 wkeeks or so. For a while I fed her raw mixed with honest kitchen. Finances dictated that I switch to something cheaper. Here's a thread where I asked about the kibble I'm giving her: http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=10&Number=259565&Searchpage=1&Main=24917&Words=+Doug+Alcorn&topic=0&Search=true#Post259565

as it turns out, I'm giving her a 1:1 mix of those two kibbles in that post. It's not a great diet, but certainly there is worse dog food out there. However, given the level of performance I'm expecting out of her it's likely I need to feed her better.

We almost always run on asphalt. My week day runs are on neighborhood roads. My weekend runs are on an asphalt paved trail. In both cases she can run in the grass but almost always chooses to run on pavement. Of course the pace is such she's not really running, but rather walking quickly. She almost never breaks into a trot or a true run.

IMO, 8 miles on pavement is too much to be asking of a 14 m/o dog. Her joints are not fully developed and it can lead to issues down the road.

As far as the kibble, I'd quit with the sweet potato/chicken kibble. And maybe try to switch to more of a performance kibble or start adding real food in with her diet - soft cooked scrambled eggs (with shell), low sodium cottage cheese, cheap cooked hamburger or ground turkey w/fat are all things you can add in moderation that would provide her with more building blocks for energy.

To clarify, for the add-ins I'd try to keep it around 1/4 cup/day of whatever you add in - basically a nice dollop on top of her food. And if you're not doing fish oil already, you should be adding that to her diet.

If you want to stay with kibble, I'd look for a grain free kibble to mix with the Kirklands. The cost will probably just be slightly higher than the SP/chicken kibble. Nature's Variety (if you've never tried it before you can get register to get a buy one/get one coupon on their website), Wellness CORE, Orijen are all good ones to look into.

 Quote: Mara Jessup

IMO, 8 miles on pavement is too much to be asking of a 14 m/o dog. Her joints are not fully developed and it can lead to issues down the road.

I appreciate your feedback. I've been sensitive to taking her out, but don't have a feel of what's acceptable and what's not. We've been taking it slow and building up slow for a long while. I'm not in the best of shape myself and she really had no issues keeping up with me. The problems really started when I began training for the 1/2 marathon. I think pushing myself, I've built up conditioning and endurance that maybe she hasn't. I certainly don't want to cause her health problems now or in the future.

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As far as the kibble, I'd quit with the sweet potato/chicken kibble. And maybe try to switch to more of a performance kibble or start adding real food in with her diet - soft cooked scrambled eggs (with shell), low sodium cottage cheese, cheap cooked hamburger or ground turkey w/fat are all things you can add in moderation that would provide her with more building blocks for energy.

It's ironic the sweet potato/chicken kibble is the one you recommend quitting. It has the better name recognition, but frankly my dog doesn't like it as much as the kirkland.

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It's ironic the sweet potato/chicken kibble is the one you recommend quitting. It has the better name recognition, but frankly my dog doesn't like it as much as the kirkland.

My reason is based on a couple things. First, there is more meat in the kirkland kibble - you have chicken meal and chicken as the first two ingredients. In the SP/chicken kibble you have Sweet Potatoes as the first ingredient. Second, there is higher protein and fat in the kirkland kibble 26%/16% vs 21%/10%. IMO the SP/chicken just does not provide enough fat for a dog who has above average exercise. If she is having some digestive issues on the Kirkland, I would try another kibble to see if that makes a difference. I know around here you can get the grain free kibbles I mentioned in my other post (I'll add EVO in, too) for around the same price as the Natural Balance.

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I appreciate your feedback. I've been sensitive to taking her out, but don't have a feel of what's acceptable and what's not. We've been taking it slow and building up slow for a long while. I'm not in the best of shape myself and she really had no issues keeping up with me. The problems really started when I began training for the 1/2 marathon. I think pushing myself, I've built up conditioning and endurance that maybe she hasn't. I certainly don't want to cause her health problems now or in the future.

Just for a reference, my 15 m/o old Border Collie gets 2-3 miles of unstructured running/walking a day. She is on a 50 ft long line as I walk out in a field and can run, walk, lope as she wants. Along with that she gets 2, 10-15 minute sessions of training time with ball or frisbee used for a reward. I'll up this a bit as the weather improves!! We also do a little clicker work indoors. I'll probably start biking with her a bit this summer and keep it around 2 miles/day 4 or 5 times a week mostly along a dirt road. For jogging with your dog, I'd suggest leaving her home if you're going more than a couple miles for now. When she is 18-24 months you can start adding in more distance.

Hi Doug,
I've run with my dogs for 10 years now. I take them on up to 30 miles xc skis/hike-runs and usually run them about 8-10 miles in the morning and another 4 at night. I also skijor race my husky, where he runs sub four minute miles for 4 to 7 miles or so. I actually never had a dog quit on me unless it's just too hot (too hot usually above 75 to 80 or so depending on humidity). One medical issue that comes to mind is hypoglycemia? I'm no expert but a dog musher mentioned this to me once and would lead to the symptoms you are seeing in Suzzie, I think.
I hear you on the cost of feeding. I used to feed grain free kibble to my two dogs. Then I did some research (walking around the store and analyzing nutrition labels). Interestingly, grain-free kibble often contains significantly less calories per cup (up to 200) than kibble with grain, this despite having higher fat percentages which I can't understand. There are more calories per gram fat than gram protein, so this doesn't make sense... Right now I feed my dogs Eagle Pack Power Formula. It comes in a 40 lb orange bag with a 30/20 protein/fat ratio. I pay $40 a bag, which is a huge money saver over Evo or Taste of the Wild and especially Arcada or Wellness all of which I tried. My two approx. 70 lb dogs go through a 40 lb bag in two weeks. Eagle Pack is fed by many top mushers, and supplemented with raw meat and pure fat as the demands on the dogs increase. Most if not all Iditarod musher feed meat and fat alone, as it is easier on the dog's system.
But, since you're talking about 10 mile runs maximum, Suzzie should do well on something similar to a 30/20 ratio kibble. At temperatures below 30, I don't think she'd be dehydrating at only the six mile mark or so. I also wouldn't recommend giving her alot to drink mid run due to bloating,torsion and just digestive upset. I'd recommend giving her maybe 2 cups of baited water 2 hours before you run. The easiest way to bait water is to mix in some canned tuna and tuna juice or a bit of canned dog food into the water. Most dogs will drink it right up. This will give her plenty of hydration prior to the run and avoid any potential problems with bloating, etc.
If you have a chance to take her out on trails, for maybe half your run or so, try that and see if it improves her attitude. Most dogs LOVE free running with you and I'd be more worried if she was still showing signs of slowing down while running with you off leash on trails.
If you are stuck on pavement, try to vary your route if possible. Dogs love to explore new places.
Personally, I don't see a problem with running a dog 10 miles on pavement once a week at 14 months old, especially an athletic, medium size dog like an Aussie. I'd be more hesitant to do this with a young shepherd or mastiff, but honestly, the impact forces from asphalt (not cement- that's a very hard surface) aren't that much greater, especially in winter, than a packed dirt trail.
It might also help to stop at the halfway mark and play fetch or another interactive game off leash in a field to encourage her and keep her mentally stimulated.
After I started running with dogs I switched to primarily trail running. Sometimes, it takes a lot of creativity to find 'trails' but I've usually been able to do at least half of my ten mile runs on non-paved surfaces.
If a diet switch, new areas, interacitve play stops and hydration 2 hours prior to the run all fail, then either something is medically amiss or she just doesn't want to run that far with you. But try the first few things first.
Good luck, most Aussies make super running partners!

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Interestingly, grain-free kibble often contains significantly less calories per cup (up to 200) than kibble with grain, this despite having higher fat percentages which I can't understand. There are more calories per gram fat than gram protein, so this doesn't make sense... Right now I feed my dogs Eagle Pack Power Formula. It comes in a 40 lb orange bag with a 30/20 protein/fat ratio. I pay $40 a bag, which is a huge money saver over Evo or Taste of the Wild and especially Arcada or Wellness all of which I tried

FYI, EVO (564 kcal/cup) and Instinct(464 kcal/cup) both have more calories per cup than Eagle Pack Power (449 kcal/cup). Some grain free kibble do have significantly less, but certainly not all of them. Interestingly enough the price you pay for Power Pack is just a touch more than what I pay for TOTW - $40-36# (but TOTW is one of those with lower calories)

You're right. I think this was when I was comparing Innova basic adult formula to other foods (if I remember right, it had 550/cup)

Kiersten, thanks for that detailed write up. That's some excellent information. What I'm feeding her now is only 16% fat as opposed to the 20% the Eagle Pack Power you use. I've seen some other articles and forum posts that say just a few percent can be the difference between weight loss and good performance. I have a couple questions about your advice.

First, Suzzie isn't able to be off leash at all. Most of the time she stays with me, but I've been burned too many times and don't trust her. She's still on leash 90% of the time she's not in her crate. Obviously I need to work on her recall.

Second, I run fairly early in the morning. Not sure how to hydrate her 2 hours before I run. I guess I could switch to after dinner runs. I honestly wish I could do afternoon runs, but I just don't have the access or time to.

I've also seen some advice on feeding only once a day to maximize the amount of time the dog has to digest her food before exercise is required. I know many here on the forum recommend feeding multiple times a day. Just wondering what you do.

Lastly, do you think using the glyco-gen products is worth it to help her recover faster from runs?