Thanks Willie and everyone. I ordered the pack leader and Dominate dog video by 2 day air! You hit the nail on the head. Even with Loose Leas Walking he does prefer to be a bit ahead. When I am clicking an treating he stays right by my side with his eyes focused on me so I need to do this more and not let him go ahead

Mara. The version of the Look at that Game (yes from Control Unleashed) that I have been doing with Benny and the fenced dog was what the behaviorist told me to do when she came in January. She did stress keeping him under threshold, but you make a good point in that as soon as the mouth closes and he leans forward he is already over threshold, even if he has not erupted. I think the root of the problem is that he does not respect me as a leader and now I have to step up and earn that respect.

Benedict is training me to train him.

 Quote: mara jessup

... Under threshold does not mean bringing him right up to the breaking point, it means working him under it. The clenched mouth is over threshold. I think you might be inadvertently rewarding him for the behavior you don't want. ... I'd take him in the vicinity, do some light obedience work, turn around and leave without even coming close to the other dog at first. Teach him to realize he doesn't even have to deal with the other dog. .... Also "Look at That" .... doesn't have the dog look longer and longer at the stimuli, rather it rewards for a glance and moves on. Basically it shows him that it is no big deal and we can move on with life. When you have him look at the other dog longer and longer it is putting pressure on him to do something (staring is a dominant behavior) and it leads to him reacting. ...

Big important points, Debbie.

Goal: I want the dog focused on me and perceiving other dogs as mere "background." It would be counterproductive, actually, for me to reward duration in the attention to other dogs.

Debbie, have you seen any of the desensitizing threads here? If not, I can dig up and link you to some detailed pointers for working with the dog outside his reactive zone, engaging your dog before he ever has a chance to tense up and focus on the other dog. What I don't want is for my dog to get practice in stressing over other dogs, because every time he does, that reaction is reinforced.

Instead, I want to engage the dog with me with upbeat but calm ob, including fabulous marker rewards. In fact, I start this in a neutral area, where people and vehicles, etc., are visible but not close enough to the dog (the individual dog) to trigger his reactivity. I would do this for a week or more, setting the stage and creating the habit of focus on me while ignoring the rest of the world.

If I have made a mistake and moved too close to triggers, I change it.

I gradually include (at a non-reactive distance) the stress trigger. In this case, the fenced dog would be far enough away for my dog not to react, but to engage with me.

It's a very gradual process, as you can see, but well worth the time and effort.

Thanks Connie. I would love a link to th desensitizing threads.

I am going to take Benny out to the park now, try to undo some mistakes.

 Quote:

I think the root of the problem is that he does not respect me as a leader and now I have to step up and earn that respect.

IMO, You can earn a lot of respect by keeping your dog under threshold. It allows him to learn at a level where he's comfortable and can focus on you. It teaches him that you're in charge and that you can manage the situation.

I have a dog reactive dog. The two best things I did for him were to teach him calm, relaxing behaviors (a variation of mat games from CU) and work him at a level well under his threshold. WE did this as clicker work and he loved it. I taugh him in the distraction free environment of the living room, then gradually moved it to other areas. By the time we got around to working in highly distracting environments, I had some calm default behaviors built in him, that he loved to offer (because they had been so highly rewarded).

The best thing I did for me was set up situations where I could be 100% relaxed and in control. Instead of feeding off my tension, he fed off the calmer version of me. Now when we get near a situation that would have set him off, he looks to me to see how he should handle it. I usually give him a soothing, upbeat, "good boy" and we continue on.

Hey Debbie, Its not time to hang him.

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Before reading all this great but conflicting material I just gave my dogs the level of correction needed to get them to do what I wanted, once I was sure they understood.

I think you may have been a little inconsistant as you tried new things and may have lost sight of what you needed to work on. I think you just need to use distance from distractions and tighten up his obedience with a balance of reward and correction.

Steve, I agree!!!!!! Wow I hope people don't think I was telling her to hang him!!!!
I was just trying to explain the reasoning behind using the dominant dog collar to help her understand that it isn't a bad thing, per her stated reservations.
This is why I was pushing the videos so very hard.
I hope that she watches them several times before doing anything.
Thank you for saying something!

 Quote: Willie Tilton

Steve, I agree!!!!!! Wow I hope people don't think I was telling her to hang him!!!!
I was just trying to explain the reasoning behind using the dominant dog collar to help her understand that it isn't a bad thing, per her stated reservations.
This is why I was pushing the videos so very hard.
I hope that she watches them several times before doing anything.
Thank you for saying something!

Thanks for clarifying, Willie .... it did seem like just a matter of clarification.

Thank you.

 Quote: connie sutherland

 Quote: willie tilton

Steve, I agree!!!!!! Wow I hope people don't think I was telling her to hang him!!!!
I was just trying to explain the reasoning behind using the dominant dog collar to help her understand that it isn't a bad thing, per her stated reservations.
This is why I was pushing the videos so very hard.
I hope that she watches them several times before doing anything.
Thank you for saying something!

No worries, I understand no one was saying I needed to hang the dog! (I am probably not even strong enough.) I did order a collar and understand that unlike a prong which may increase drive, the dominate dog collar decreases drive.

I did order both videos and will watch them. I have already watched the small sections they have for free and just that little bit is helpful.

Right now I am trying to anticipate things that will set him off, and turning him the other way does help. I will work on having him walk at my side and not in front and try to walk him at times, and in places where there will be less things to set him off.

We had a very good play/training session at the fenced in school yard. There were no dogs or people, just the distractions of birds and the smells in the grass and Benny did great. "Heel, sit, down, come,stay, shake, hands, target, give" He was focuses and eager to please. Sometimes he is too eager and will cycle through all the behaviors he knows

I am so thankful for all the advice here. I have been reading many of the free articles too.

Good for you, Debbie! Calmly changing route to avoid what you know is a trigger is really helpful. You want to have as much control of the environment as you can have while you work with the dog.

This is exactly what you want to do, IMO:
We had a very good play/training session at the fenced in school yard. There were no dogs or people, just the distractions of birds and the smells in the grass and Benny did great. "Heel, sit, down, come,stay, shake, hands, target, give" He was focuses and eager to please.

This (combined with wonderful rewards -- marker training is so good for engaging the dog ) will give the dog new habits and both of you more confidence and an enhanced bond. Good for you!

I'll search tonight and post links to some desensitizing threads.

Debbie-

My dog LOVES to play double kong. (you play fetch with two kongs) When we are doing this, the world goes on by with barely a glance. It took me a while to realize that this was THE game we could do at the park and I could get total engagement. I was getting disappointed with tug and even treats could not hold her attention, once gobbled up.

Anyway, I started playing double kong at the park. First when no one was there (snowy days, early, fingers freezing). We just worked up to yesterday with lacrosse teams, two groups of college kids playing frisbee and at least one other dog playing fetch. She was in OUR zone and did not even check these other distractions out. Yippee!

Keep working at your school yard and it will pay off.