What I see with a lot of training discussion books is that if you 'believe' in dominance that you use it as punishment and domination. So a lot of strict cookie pushers never like dominance since they think of alpha rolling and punishing a dog instead of just working with the social hardwiring that all dogs come with. People think that a dominant dog is trying to take over the world and is stupid enough to not tell dogs from people. Like she says...inter species....BUT I do think that dogs think like dogs and work with the social hierarchy they were born with......so I don't see the ostrich in the sand idea of saying dogs don't try to be dominant with people.....she just interprets differently. I find a lot of no corrections or punishment trainers DO work with NILIF (nothing in life is free) so you wonder what they think they are working with then?
Lori, my response is that is a currency that dogs understand.
However slow and dumb I happen to be in relation to the human world, I'm light years ahead of what the dog can grasp. Therefore it behooves me to learn the dogs language in order for me to be able to attempt a communication with them and guide them safely through my/our human world.
That being said, I've always taken the talk about the alpha beta omega stuff more as a metaphor then anything else. It's obvious I'm not a dog (at least to most people!) and any dog never would make that mistake. But much as children, each dog is different. Each one is going to need and can use a little more pressure here and a little less there.
In some ways I can see the wisdom of changing the language and vocabulary as was discussed here a few months ago.
I still say though, instead of changing the vocabulary stick with educating the misinformed on just what 'a pack structure' means.
Lynne Barrows Webboard User Reg: 09-22-2007
Posts: 2531
Loc: S. Florida
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Mike, some good points, I think. (but have that 2nd cup anyway... )
I also think the author is not clearly distinguishing between 'dominance' and leadership. Not many here advocate dominating their dog, I don't think. (by domination, I mean doing alpha rolls, etc)
Providing clear rules for behavior and enforcing them is good leadership, and has nothing to do with dominance.
Providing clear rules for behavior and enforcing them is good leadership, and has nothing to do with dominance.
It is also good parenting, teaching, coaching, etc. Dominance, in the sense that the author used it, seems punitive. What most here describe as pack structure is about leadership where life in the family pack should be fair, consistent. Where you know what you are working for (treat or tug), and you shouldn't be surprised with a firm "no" if you do something you know is wrong.
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Re: Dominance vs reward training - The Thinking Do
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