Quote:

Originally posted by Denver Asher:
Kelton, I don't think one has to experience every type of dog to know that letting the dog out of the crate into the kitchen was a mistake. Dog training is sometimes a battle of wits, and I think you may be going into combat unarmed. But thanks for your astute insight, best laugh I have experienced in a while.

Oh, I think I found a snide one!

Meghan didn't give enough specific info for us to know whether or not "lettting the dog out of the crate" has any relation at all to it's wetting habit. Even if you wanted to teach a dog to wet in it's crate, it would take excellent timing using the "put it in the kitchen" technique *IF* it would work at all! That fact that you jumped to conclusions along with your self-rightious blaming remarks directed at a person with an honest question speaks volumes.

Denver writes:
""Kelton, you said you had pups fully house trained and non destructive without any intervention. ... Waiting for your answer with total amusement.""

I have owned dogs and personally know of many dogs owned by people who are as naive about dog training as you can get. As it turns out, these dogs just don't want to wet in their crate (which stands to reason) or the home. Are these people to "blame" for their dog's good behavior? Well, I don't think so....and I seriously doubt that Meghan or others are *necessarily* to blame for this sort of thing. Her dog is misbehaving, she is trying to resolve the problem....why take jabs?

I don't know where you can find an 8 wk old dog that will be well be housebroken without deliberate training....you'll have to take your chances like everyone else.

Amused?

Thanks for the input everyone. Kelton, you're probably on to something with your idea. I mean, I'm not 100 % sure, but maybe she had an accident and then I let her out without realizing it and it all clicked in her head. It makes a lot of sense.

I'll start leaving her in there for short periods of time and see how it goes. She actually has gone in there several times by herself the past couple of days, so maybe that's a start.

Denver - I think she already thought the crate was her "piss depot." And I guess it might be my fault, but it could just have easily been the fact that the breeder wasn't as clean as he could have been (I didn't see the pups in their kennel, so I don't know), or maybe it was even genetics, or how well the mother cleaned up after the pups. Maybe she's just a dirty pup. Who knows. And I think that putting her in the kitchen is not a mistake - it stops the accidents. In the crate, she'd just lay in it, it didn't seem to bother her at all. It was certainly unhealthy for her as well as nasty for us.

Also, I didn't mention her obedience because I didn't really think it was relevant. I'm glad your pup is so well trained. Good for you. I'm not going to get into a "my pup is better than yours" discussion. I'm really happy with how Djenga's obedience is doing - she's right where I want her to be. I wouldn't ASK her to stay for 3 minutes, that's pushing it for a pup so young. Djenga will sit or down stay till I release her, but I do it quickly.

And she had always whined to go out to poop, since the day we got her. She seems to be starting to whine to go out to pee now. She only has accidents if we don't take her out often enough, like I said, about every 5 hours. It's just in the crate that she really has accidents all the time.

And the idea about the different crate sounds like a good one as well. I'll definately try that if she doesn't improve in the next week or so.

sorry, clicked reply twice

Ok, here's a quick update...

Over the weekend, she got pretty bad...she was having accidents at night, plus in the house all the time. I started taking her out every hour and now she's telling me when she needs to go out, no more accidents in the house.

BUT

I just put her in the crate again for the first time since I posted. I put her in, gathered up some clothes to do laundry. The second I got out of her sight, she started screaming. She quieted down after a minute, so I came back and gave her a treat, left again and came back, every time I get out of her sight she starts crying. So I took the clothes down to the basement, and when I came back up I went over to give her a treat before she started crying, and I smelled it...she'd had an accident.

I'd just taken her outside before I put her in the crate, she peed, I played with her for about 10 minutes, but still the accident.

Any new ideas??? Should I just forget about the crate till she's older or keep reinforcing this?

Meghan, how many times a day was the pup having an accident? I'm starting to wonder if she doesn't have a UTI, maybe a vet check is in order?

I thought that might be it (a UTI) over the weekend since it got bad for a couple of days, but now she's good again till I put her in the crate. But I think I will take her to the vet anyway, are there any other symptoms of a UTI other than frequent urination? If she had this, all this time, and we didn't know about it, could it have done any long term damage, and is there a way to find out about any damage? I will make the appt tomorrow, should I bring a urine sample?

My pup had this same problem and I took him to the vet, the vet said that some dogs do not have their bladder muscles fully developed until a little older than normal. She may be having accidents due to that. She also may have a UTI, if you can bring a urine sample that would be good, otherwise they can get one by aspirating the bladder which doesn't hurt the dog. Remember you want to take a pup straight to the potty place after, play, eating, drinking a lot of fluid, and sleeping. Good Luck.

A urine sample is a good idea, just make sure it's "fresh" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> , preferably before you take her in the office. The only other symptoms of a UTI are occasionally discharge and a strong odor to the urine, and it only takes a minute to see if the ph level is an 8 or higher.
The only other thing I can think of is to make sure the crate is small enough, cleaned thoroughly
with Nature's Miracle, and start from scratch, letting her out every 30 minutes to an hour. Sometimes getting an entirely new crate that is different from the old one (wire crate to vari-kennel or vice versa) works too.

Just got back from the vet. No infection. The pH of the urine was 5, and she didn't have any excess white blood cells or anything else to show an infection.

The funniest part was when the vet turned her over to look at her belly and check for discharge, and Djenga jumped up and had the vet by the arm...oops!!! Bad dog! She also weights in at 35 pounds <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, she said something about the possibility of something...I'm not sure what it's called, but it's where the urethra doesn't go to the bladder from the kidneys, it sort of bypasses the bladder and goes straight out. She said it's pretty rare, but does anyone know anything about this so I can do a little more research?

The vet attributes it to her being a "hyper puppy" and said she'll probably grow out of it.

So I guess I'm back where I started from on this. Any other ideas? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Nevermind about the condition, it's called an Ectopic Ureter.

It sounds as if dogs with this condition drip urine constantly, and the dogs are incontinent from birth. She's not totally incontinent...mostly when she's in the crate, and she never drips.

I am soo frustrated <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />