Quote:
i am looking for a well bred strong and healthy male.

exercise them and do everything that anyone with a dog they bought at a breeder for thousands of rands.

Finding this male should cost you money for a stud fee, you can't offer a pup, you have them all spoken for! From your comment, I am guessing you did not get your dog from a breeder, how do you know that she is well bred? Can you afford the possible complications, puppy exams, complications with a pup?

I got my dogs from a lady who had an "accidental" pregnancy.
both parents were German shepherd, but the father has a questionable background.

she goes for regular checks and we have a Vet that we go to that believes in the same views i have read here many times.
Raw diet and good vitamins. lots of exercise and training.
i went through general field work with both my dogs until i had to change jobs, now we have a setup close to my house that i arranged and we do our own course work.

i have never entered any competitions so no titles. my dogs were also not registered.
but i can say that my females stance, stride health and everything in general has been checked.
her 1st cycle was very delayed, and her second seemed very short. but it has regulated since then and i know because my male and the males in the general vicinity all agree, lol.

i understand the points of everyone and i know the harm unplanned breeding and backyard breeding can do.

as for the people who will be getting the pups, i know them personally. and i am prepared to take back any of the dogs. i have access to a big family farm that will be more than suitable for any dog that gets returned, but i know these people and they wont be returning any dogs.

i feel like i am having to defend my case and that i am being attacked by some of the remarks.

thank you for the good points Betty.

 Quote: yusrie khondker

i understand the points of everyone and i know the harm unplanned breeding and backyard breeding can do.
i feel like i am having to defend my case and that i am being attacked by some of the remarks.

Yet you're going ahead with it anyways. Please explain how you're not a backyard breeder.

Here's what I see:
You have an unregistered dog
You don't know its pedigree
You don't have health testing done on this dog (a vet check is not health screenings)
Your intentions are to breed dogs for friends. Not to breed better dogs.
You're refusing to deal with reputable breeders because they are simply "too expensive."
You're searching out a "well bred, strong and healthy stud" but you have no idea if your dogs are related and if so how closely, or are looking for a stud that compliments your dog's weaknesses and strengths.
You have no idea if your dog is a genetic disease carrier.


I love dogs, that's why I'm critical. Don't take it personally I do question myself too as I plan out litter prospects.

If you're bound and determined to breed your dog no one here can stop you but I can certainly say I'm not going to be part of something I think is a bad idea. Puppies are HORRIBLE gifts for friends and family IMO. Personally I wont even sell a dog to family.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

im not breeding the dog for presents.
and the vet checks i do with my dog covered her health check.
i have raised my dogs with what i have learnt on this site. in such i have made sure of everything that was stated, eyes, hips, blood work, etc.
The reason i am looking for a strong healthy male is so that i can ensure the puppies are of better quality than if i just took any dog. i do believe in bettering the breed and wont just breed for the sake of breeding and making money.

i thank you for your input Melissa.
I take it i wont get much help here.
thank you to those that did give some understanding into the whole process.

 Quote: yusrie khondker

The reason i am looking for a strong healthy male is so that i can ensure the puppies are of better quality than if i just took any dog. i do believe in bettering the breed and wont just breed for the sake of breeding and making money.

Hi Yusrie,

You seem to be a very nice person whose heart is in the right place and who is trying to take very good care of your dogs. It does seem like folks aren't being helpful, doesn't it? You are asking for specific information and that is not being given. Maybe I can offer some insight, although I am not a breeder.

You said that you want to better the breed and are willing to look for a healthy strong male, which is excellent. But keep in mind that your dog's father's "history" is questionable, which means her grandfather or great grandfather could be a lab mix or a collie doberman mix (just examples) which means that your dog may not be a PURE German Shepherd, correct? This doesn't make her a bad dog in any way, infact she is very pretty. But from a breeding standpoint, the fact that we know nothing about her "family tree" would make it impossible for you to better the breed, wouldn't it? Even though your heart is in the right place. In fact, for someone to breed an unregistered dog of unknown heritage does in fact harm the breed.

Your desire to "not just breed for the sake of breeding" is very responsible. If you combine this with the fact that you don't know anything about your dog's ancestory or what her genetic strenghts and weaknesses are, this makes it impossible to select the correct male, doesn't it? Even though your heart is in the right place, the scientic information is simply unavailable to help you find the right guy, because your beautiful gal is not the right GIRL.

It is not that they are not being helpful. Just like you, they believe in never breeding a dog just for the sake of breeding, and they also believe as you do to ONLY breed to improve the genetics of a particular line of dogs... which can only be done if you know the genetics of both parents.

None of us like hearing what we don't want to hear... And it is very hard to step back and leave the emotional dissapointment aside and just slowly think through the new set of facts, because our normal "knee jerk" reaction is "Hey! You're not helping me!"

The fact that you are taking the time to research is a great thing, more people should do so. But you do have to open your mind to accepting the resulting information you aquire from your research. In my opinion it is not that people are not being helpful, it is just that you are not hearing what you hoped to hear. That doesn't make the information wrong, just very dissapointing.

I don’t think people are “attacking” you, I think they are trying to convey their message that the reason one should be breeding is to improve their breed. I personally feel that there are far too many dogs in the world to breed without logical reason, and if one chooses to breed, that person, among other things, should be intimately familiar with the genetic history of the dog, . I noticed in a previous post that you were looking at breeders to purchase a male, the cost of this purchase, potential extra expenses during pregnancy, the risk of complications to mother/pups, the time and expense of whelping etc,… for the purpose of supplying friends, that can’t afford to purchase a dog, seems rather pointless. This could cost you many dollars, and potential risks to the dog that you obviously love.

Sorry, read Barbara's after...Well said...I think you have Golden Retriever in you!

I once considered breeding my GSD, the one in my sig pic, and started looking intensely for a genetically superb male. Well, I had my dreams dashed by a breeder that told me that given my dogs genetic history and lack of working titles (tons of titles on her fathers side, even goes back to Natan, Ed's best dog and Nikki another one of Ed's dogs that was an amazing working dog). Her mother's side was the weak link. Some working titles and alot more show titles made me getting a good enough male to breed an afterthought.
The breeder had told me that my dog was mediocre. Imagine my anger at someone trying to tell me that my dog was less than ok, and that they wouldn't sell me a male pup with breeding rights because she was from a mediocre background. I was livid for a while, very upset.

I think, still now, deep down, that my female is an incredible dog that could do the work if we would have had the time and a club nearby to work with her. I would have worked hard to get her titled so she would have that in her background, but I still would have had her lineage to contend with. And she would have been an excellent mother and produced some beautiful pups, but I came to the conclusion that just because she's pretty and would make pretty pups that "could" sell, didn't mean that I should breed her. I, too, had talked about it here, and was upset by the general reaction from the replies I recieved, but it made me realize that I knew nothing about the true genetic part of breeding and that I'd have my work cut out for me bringing a litter of pups (spoken for or not) into the world. Most of my family and friends were all for getting a pup from her if we would have had a litter, but then I had the scary realization that if my GSD would've had a litter of say 12 pups, and they had been spoken for (no deposits or written contracts signed) I would have been screwed. Because as soon as I thought I was close to finding a male (before the "mediocre" comment) I had many of the people who wanted one, tell me that they couldn't have one for whatever reasons.

I wish you luck, and I hope you seriously think this thought through. It's not an easy choice to make, and if you need alot of help, you may want to wait until you have the time and money to put into a more expensive pup for breeding. By then you'll have more info and will know what to look for in a breeding bitch and a good stud dog.

i realise what everyone is trying to say.

but maybe take this thought into consideration.

there is a place for 100% pure breed dogs with a line back to the original dog.

but there is also a place for a dog that is strong and healthy and makes a great pet and companion. My dogs are companions and guards to me and my property. we initially trained for some competition work, but because they not registered they were not allowed to enter. doesn't mean if we worked hard and kept at it that we wouldn't be able to achieve titles.

but all that aside. I just feel it is unfair that a good quality dog has to cost so much that regular people need to save for ages to afford 1. and obviously I'm not talking about making a dog available to someone who cant look after it.

BTW, i read that a 3rd generation puppy is considered pure breed. how true is that?

"BTW, i read that a 3rd generation puppy is considered pure breed. how true is that?"

I can't think of a legit registry for dogs that allows in what is considered "grade" animals. It is a common practice with livestock animals however and depending on the registry the percentage to "purebred" changes . Once unregistered unless there is a proven pedigree link down the line to registered animals there is no way to gain that title back unless a specific stud book opening happens. I don't see this happening at least with AKC or UKC GSDs.

"We initially trained for some competition work, but because they not registered they were not allowed to enter. doesn't mean if we worked hard and kept at it that we wouldn't be able to achieve titles."

Many registries have competition titles available for non registered dogs at least here in the USA. I believe the requirement for competition in these fields is that the dog is altered.

Again, I don't believe you should be breeding this dog, the fact that people don't want to pay for quality pets is what has fueled the shelter situation in this country. There is a network of shelters in South Africa where I am willing to bet that there are at least 10 dogs who are of the same grade of german shepherd that you will be producing.