That's why you condition the pup as you rear it.

I agree fully with Ed's post, Alpha rolling a dog does not make any sense at all to me. A dog submitts because his opponent is stronger than him. You can achieve this by physical punishment (hitting a dog with a leash untill he submitts: rolls over on his back)
If you have no leash on your dog and you would do this your dog will try to flee away from you, the punisher.
Alha rolling a dog does not show the dog that you are the Alpha! It just shows him that next time you want to roll him he will give it a try to avoid the situation by either getting away from you or fighting you!
I am talking here about a dominat adult male. Autorothy and respect is not created by alha rolling a dog. It can be achieved only through hard training and work with a dog in a way that he knows that the only good thing to do is to listen and comply otherwise he gets a "beating"

Sorry Rik but if you have to "beat" a dog into submission you have big problems and it probably means that you have "lost" the dog. In every case I have seen this is a point that you train to. If the dog starts there you probably have a dog that needs to be put down. That level of violence towards a dog is either going to break their temprament or create an unreliable dog that believes that sooner or later it can get "even".

The trainer we work with specializes in problem dogs. They would never raise a leash to a dog in this manner, and I have seen them "fix" some ugly problems with only a leash and slip collar. It may take 2 trainiers with leashes on the dog to keep it from comming up the leash at one of the trainers. Most dogs with this level of an aggression problem have been created by a bad owner, and with time and proper training, they can be corrected.

I agree that this type of training means that there are big problems...maybe not only with the dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I agree that this type of training means that there are big problems...maybe not only with the dog. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Rick:

Whoa. I am all for sharing new ideas and I usually never put anyone's training methods down but in the interest of new comers to this board who look at some of us as mentors I have to strongly disagree with your beating methods. You really need to invest in Ed's obedience tapes and rethink your bonding methods. Please if I misunderstood your post correct me.

Rick is Dutch - there is a possibility that his English is not totally correct and that he did not mean a beating - maybe he just meant "and ass kicking"

I would like to say that the roll is probaly one of the dumbest things that I have heard of in dog training. First of all as many of you have said it is a great way to get your face bit off. What I have not heard from most people giving advice, and I thought this would be a good point to mention, is that most adult male dogs that need to be put in there place usally are a problem for most owners to correct and are an accident waiting to happen. I really feel that some people that give advice need to hold thier lips a little as people could get hurt listening to them. Beating an adult male that is having a rank issue will normaly result in most owners getting themselves bit from these dogs. I believe people see thier dogs giving a small rank issue and blow it out of proportion, this might be fixed with a simple smack with a the leash etc., but if the dog will submitt from the Alpha role, an adult male, then he most likley did not need it and then it really is just abuse to the animal, and a pointless exercise. With that said, if there is a rank issue with the dog, and you start to kick the dogs ass, beat him , etc. the chances of the average pet owner not getting bit is slim to none with an adult male. THese issues need to be addresed when the dog is younger and not older, and really should be adressed by people with exprience. People that get pups should research everything about raising a dog, to avoid theses issues.. For thoses of you that get an adlut dog with a problem, get rid of him, as most likley if you try to correct it yourself, you will probaly find out who Alpha is between u and your dog!

I am closing this threat - the thread started over Puppy rearing and conditions. We have discussed Alpha Rolls to the entent that they need to be discussed.

Its time for a new topic under this forum.