I thougt of it before but this newsletters video encouraged me write it.

When a dog yelps when te owner is correcting her, it might not really be the pain but the fact that the owner is correcting her that makes the dog react in such manner. So it might really not have alot to do with pain tolerance. Like the "alpha roll" between dogs/wolves is not a matter of one forcing down the other with raw strenght (as is the "alpha roll" that people tend to administer) but more of the other demonstrating their acceptance of the other dogs higher rank. Strangers can´t get the reaction with a stern leash correction that I can with a strong NO out of my dobe.

Perhaps not the best wording but I hope I got the message through.

 Quote: Ana Kozlowsky

A gadget cannot react to whatever stupid move a kid makes, unlike a coach who would risk his life to save a young athlete's life.

It is *intense* play; every moment must be supervised. I think the coach comparison is unjust, unless you were assuming I simply put a lure out and leave her on it while I mow the lawn.

 Quote: Ana Kozlowsky

You probably know how important this role of a coach is with his charges. Would your coach just let you go at whatever challenge you see out there without discrimination?

As I mentioned in the initial thread, the worst injury she's ever sustained was playing fetch. At some point, if you take out everything with the potential to cause harm, our dogs would never leave the house. There is no activity I can do (such as tug) where she can work *nearly* as hard as on the spring pole. The muscle tone it puts on her is amazing (I only do it in the warm months), and she would rather bite that lure than eat a steak. I wouldn't deny her that pleasure nor exertion, and it's a great tool for teaching the out. I'm not telling you or anyone else to use it for their dog, just that it works for mine.


As an aside, if anyone is working on building one, use far stronger cable, connectors, and rope than you'd think!

I absolutely agree with your reply chip!

And thanks for the heads up on the building materials, I will make sure to over-compensate!

Niomi,
I'm using a 500 pound strength hemp rope tied between two trees. If you use eye screws, get half inch thickness or larger and at least three inches. Screw it into the tree until it will not turn any further. From these, tie your rope and hang a heavy duty garage door spring. This needs to be at least 10-12 feet off the ground. I initially used a climbing carabiner as a quick connector, but that broke after the first few weeks. So I now tie lesser rope directly from the spring to a tire made for dogs (I want the last rope to be the weak link). The tires wear out, but can still be used long after they are chewed apart. The important thing is get everything very strong and tie solid knots. Also, the spring itself should be so high off the ground no dog could ever jump high enough to bite that! I kind of made mine from scratch, since I couldn't find a good blueprint on the Internet, but after some tweaks, it's been her favorite activity. I even lower it down for Shortstack sometimes!
http://i49.tinypic.com/14x311w.jpg

Well, since it's too quiet here I'll go ahead and post this.

Niomi, why would I throw a stick in the woods if I can throw a ball or tug on the field? Why choose an activity with the highest chance of a serious injury when the same exercise goal could be achieved in a different way, for example an interactive game of tug? Of course, some people enjoy high risk activities and there is nothing to say to that.

Supervised spring pole play: the most common advice found on the internet is to always have dog's 4 paws on the ground and exercise the dog before the spring pole, the second most common advice is to manually raise and lower the dog that hangs off the toy if you are absolutely set on doing this, not just let it release the toy and come down on it's own. Yet another good advice is to have a backup rope so that garage spring does not release and hit the dog in the face.

Since we are already discussing pain thresholds, repeated hard falls and injuries requiring stitches sustained during supervised play it almost seems like there is still room for improvement. We also got 2 dogs on the same spring pole, 3 dogs stealing recreational bones from each other, stuffed toys available freely to a pack of 3 dogs... and we also got that other problem going on...

There is a good saying I've seen somewhere: "if a dog can do it does not mean it should do it"

BTW, the best source for good ropes is not HD but a rock climbing section of a sporting goods store. Will be cheaper in the long run.

Ana, I really feel like you are going after me here, and not using fair points, so allow me to answer your post point by point.

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

Since we are already discussing pain thresholds, repeated hard falls

You make "repeated" sound as if it's commonplace. I haven't had any fall this year, and possibly not last, I can't recall. Falls aren't common, but they have happened. To call them "repeated" is an appeal to emotion, and not accurate.

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

and injuries requiring stitches sustained during supervised play

ONE injury requiring stitches. And that was from Rose taking off like a shot after a thrown ball. I felt terrible about it, but still play fetch, and yes, sometimes in the woods.

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

it almost seems like there is still room for improvement.

Perhaps I am reading tone that isn't intended, but that feels rather sarcastic. If I am mistaken, I apologize.

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

We also got 2 dogs on the same spring pole,

Four years of having Shortstack on the lowered springpole with and without Rose, and not one issue. Where's the problem?

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

3 dogs stealing recreational bones from each other

One dog losing his bone is more accurate. And that dog isn't part of "my" pack. If there were even the first biting/aggression issue, I wouldn't be willing to even bring my mother's dog into my home.

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

stuffed toys available freely to a pack of 3 dogs...

Again, TWO dogs, not three. And there has never been an issue. Give me "not yet" all you want, but I know my dogs better than anyone else, they aren't resource guarders for anything that doesn't taste good.

 Quote: ana kozlowsky

and we also got that other problem going on...

Not with either of my dogs, Ana.

So Ana,

Not trying to sounds sarcastic here, but it will probably come across that way, but how do you socialize your dogs when you seem to be very paranoid about very simple situations?

You NEVER have played fetch with your dog in the woods? What about in a lake?

A foster pitty we had a few years ago cut his pads while playing in a local lake. There were 6 dogs there that day and he was the only one who cut his paws. Does this make playing in the lake too dangerous. I would hate to limit my dogs to only being able to play in "safe" areas(I don't know that there is such a thing)because of my own paranoia.

Really this all seems like a really silly thing, JMO though.

oh dear. See Chip, no need to be so defensive, you've got your back covered.

Niomi, I don't socialize them at all. We are all sitting at home wrapped in bubble-wrap, trying not to breathe in too much air. It's really not a big deal, the meds are helping a lot.

Not sillier than usual

 Quote: Ana Kozlowsky

... I don't socialize them at all. We are all sitting at home wrapped in bubble-wrap, trying not to breathe in too much air. It's really not a big deal, the meds are helping a lot. ...

Haven't you seen the bubble-wrap warnings? We are sitting on big piles of this:

http://leerburg.com/playem.htm?name=flv/peanuts.flv

Oh my! What am I to do now? I feel so defenseless and unprotected! Time to move into our bunker, it's proof against anything but a direct nuclear hit. We've got some biohazard suits stored there as well as some clean water and rations.