Quote: meredith hamilton

It's very difficult to watch a BC that you know isn't in the right home. They're so obviously unhappy.

I truly admire those that can harness Border Collie power and energy.

Same is true of a Mal. I've seen both BC's and Mal's that were not properly "employed." It's a sad, sad sight. Constant pacing, obsessive barking (as if a record player is stuck).

Great thread yet again, Spencer - you know I love this topic too!

FYI - BC's are an "approved breed" for Schutzhund (though I'd guess it would be pretty rare to see one).

These are all smart, athletic, biddable, energetic breeds.

And there are a few others from herding group that you might as well throw in the mix for the sake of discussion, Spencer: Australian Cattle Dog, Dutch Shepherd, and probably the most often employed herder in the world, the working GSD.

I do hear you about the BC's size for travelling. I suppose an additional consideration might be folks reaction to your dog - say at a motel or whatever. Everyone seems fine with the BC or the ACD, but bring in a Mal or GSD and you get "is that dog safe?"

I love them all (and some others, too!!) and would have one of each if I could.

Have fun with your research. If you want some lists of breeders in the west for Mal, GSD, Dutchie shoot me a PM and I'll send them to you.

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

Hi, I have always wondered what kind of dog that was. It looks like a German shepherd but with black and white markings. Looks so beautiful.

don't get me wrong, he's just a big old mutt (said with the utmost affection!!) but was told his cross is Border Collie & husky..but im sure he's got something else mixed in there...lol

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

When I was living in the US , I used to walk my neigbour's border collie, Tucker.

Thats my boys' name!!! Freaky!!!

Spencer, I think its great that you want to train for a sport!

With the right dog It is possible over time to do more than one thing over time. Its just a huge time commitment. The breeder my dog comes from has quite a few dogs that are worked in more than one activity.

Maybe you could start researching by going to different events seeing what turns you on. There are similarities between the two breeds, but there are also huge differences. It would probably be better to know exactly what you want to focus on and then go find the right breeding.

I'm always looking for stuff to do with my dog, but having a hard time finding the local people to help me get started without having to pay a huge amount of money. There aren't a lot of SchH clubs around here, and the closest one is definitely geared toward police dogs. All of them you seem to need an in.

The local AKC clubs are positive only, which in itself I don't have a problem with. Positive is always the way to go for learning! But we are working through some real life stuff that she occasionally needs a correction to redirect her focus. Right now is not the time to compromise consistency.

From what I hear about the directors of the clubs they consider a prong to be abusive, and will really single people out for correcting their dogs. I don't need flack for how I'm training my dog for everyday situations. We need to be able to live out in the world more than we need a title.

When I first got her my plan was to do agility, but unfortunately I am seeing a little stiffness in one of her hips that was caused by an injury when she was a baby. I know exactly the incident that caused it and its a bummer.

There is a chance we could still do it but I want to wait until I'm sure she is really for sure done growing and have an OK from our vet.

I need to do something with her though. If anybody has any suggestions I would love to hear them.

Sorry for the rant.

Have fun researching!

 Quote: Wendy Lefebvre

 Quote: Ramachandran Subramanian

When I was living in the US , I used to walk my neigbour's border collie, Tucker.

Thats my boys' name!!! Freaky!!!

...and my son's BCmixes name. Triple freaky!!

I would say, given your criteria, that it's going to come down whether you want a protective dog or not. You mentioned your wife so I can only guess that you would want a protective dog.

Not sure if kids are an issue. I'd be cautious getting either of these if you plan to have kids soon or have infants or toddlers. could be done but better have a realistic plan.

on border collies: I've always liked the cattle bred border collies from what I see, with the short coats, MacCallum lines. Sturdier dogs.

Ramachandran:

what a poetic story. I've done the same with a bc * gsd, while an apartment dweller in Calgary, this dog belonged to my room-mate's sister and her family.

That dog used to follow the wheel of my mountain bike no matter the distraction, on grasslands single tracks. He came on mountain hikes, ski outings... how precious these alliances can be.

rgds andrew may

I have had the same thoughts about BC vs. mal. I personally have settled on a mal- I am probably not going to go on the world championship (though a wemaranier has represented our country so a mal could get me there if I myself rise to the level) and on a national level a mal will be more than enough anyway. My agility trainer has a mal (and had two before Lily).

Here nobody is particulary afraid of mals (there are only 34 registered in the country and at least some don´t even live here so people just don´t know the breed) but I appreciate the added sense of security of having a bigger dog. Plus the protection sports are still on the table and they are not as big or hairy as the GSDs.

But if I get head over heels into the hunting stuff I have grown to like more than I imagined it will be a weim

Edited by Jaana Aadamsoo (06/17/2010 12:09 PM)
Edit reason: spelling

 Quote: meredith hamilton

Just curious, Spencer, but why would you try everything but herding when it would be a natural fit for a dog of either of these breeds?

I've never had the pleasure of spending time with a Malinois, but know many BCs. They can be quirky. Obsessive. Weird. Sweet. Often they're smarter than their owners.

Well, I knew this would be an early comment! So I prepared myself! LOL! So to get right down to it, the reason I have officially decided against herding sports and hunting isn't because of a lack of interest. It would just be too hard to manage any real training with either considering I don't hunt and I live in the city. That's basically it. I can reasonably cross train through most other sports at or near my home. Also the time that goes into sports are enormous and I am the type of person who would dive to the bottom of the ocean if I took up diving

 Quote: rob abel

 Quote: meredith hamilton

It's very difficult to watch a BC that you know isn't in the right home. They're so obviously unhappy.

I truly admire those that can harness Border Collie power and energy.

Same is true of a Mal. I've seen both BC's and Mal's that were not properly "employed." It's a sad, sad sight. Constant pacing, obsessive barking (as if a record player is stuck).

Great thread yet again, Spencer - you know I love this topic too!

FYI - BC's are an "approved breed" for Schutzhund (though I'd guess it would be pretty rare to see one).

These are all smart, athletic, biddable, energetic breeds.

And there are a few others from herding group that you might as well throw in the mix for the sake of discussion, Spencer: Australian Cattle Dog, Dutch Shepherd, and probably the most often employed herder in the world, the working GSD.

I do hear you about the BC's size for travelling. I suppose an additional consideration might be folks reaction to your dog - say at a motel or whatever. Everyone seems fine with the BC or the ACD, but bring in a Mal or GSD and you get "is that dog safe?"

I love them all (and some others, too!!) and would have one of each if I could.

Have fun with your research. If you want some lists of breeders in the west for Mal, GSD, Dutchie shoot me a PM and I'll send them to you.

Thanks for your comment Rob, I always enjoy your opinions! The reason I will never do bite work with any breed other than the common protection dogs is because I recently watched Michael Ellis's lecture on protection theory. He says there is no such thing as a perfectly safe protection dog, just breeds who are less likely to bite wrongfully. I trust his judgment on that. My thoughts on intelligent breeds are, yeah I know smart breeds can get quirky, but I want the sky to be the limit on my training. I want to be able to go hit baseballs at the park for 45 minutes and enjoy watching my dog retrieve them. I want to be able to train my dog to do anything. I need a dog with enough energy to want to run 4 miles. The list goes on and on and on! I really can't wait to have my pack of dogs. I've started small with my little boy but I will be ready for sport dog!

I'm not usually the one to make people defensive, but I'd hate to see you close your mind to herding.

http://www.azherding.com/

It can be done living in the city, as long as you do have transportation.