See there! Follow Connie's recommendations and your dog will be a TV junkie like the rest of us in no time! (prolly start salivating when you turn on the tv).

 Quote: Rob Abel

See there! Follow Connie's recommendations and your dog will be a TV junkie like the rest of us in no time! (prolly start salivating when you turn on the tv).

I hope not to go too off topic here ... but it has always struck me as very funny how different the perception of the TV screen or a mirror is from dog to dog. I used to think maybe it was IQ related, but I don't think that any more. (Among GSDs and a couple of Pugs, one of the Pugs, not particularly blessed with an abundance of brain, will often respond with a long stare to animals on the screen, and will even occasionally go close and actually stand on back feet with forepaws on the TV table to stare into the screen.)

I have never been able to pinpoint why one dog will recognize a dog on the TV (and particularly, IME, a profile of the entire form of the dog) and another one doesn't even really look at the TV, off or on. And I've had two different dogs who stared earnestly at their reflections in a full-length mirror, and one who barked at it when she saw it suddenly, but most who ignored mirrors completely.

 Quote: Rob Abel

.... your dog will be a TV junkie like the rest of us in no time! (prolly start salivating when you turn on the tv).

More likely stare at us in scornful amazement that we find it so absorbing.

I do have one who I swear looks at my face for long earnest minutes, apparently unable to figure out why I am staring at that stupid lit box. Luckily I don't have to figure out how to defend it to him.

We have one like that too. He'll walk around and look everyone in the eyes - if he could talk and he almost can - asking "what do you want to DO?"

(BTW I saw a study once that analyzed what cats actually saw on the TV screen - and it didn't look at all like what we see. Something about motion detectors, I dunno, some technical stuff about how their eyes are constructed differently, sending a different message to their brains than the visual input we humans receive.)

 Quote: rob abel

(BTW I saw a study once that analyzed what cats actually saw on the TV screen - and it didn't look at all like what we see. Something about motion detectors, I dunno, some technical stuff about how their eyes are constructed differently, sending a different message to their brains than the visual input we humans receive.)

Their eyes register the frame rate differently. Images on television, like film, are essentially a series of stills moving faster than the human eye can detect (which happens to be 60 stills per second) - it has to do with how quickly the light receptive cells at the back of our eyes can absorb and transmit light information, electrically, to our brain, and it's known as the "flicker-fusion" rate . Dogs eyes (and maybe cats too, though my info is for dogs) have a faster flicker-fusion rate (70-80 cycles per sec) so the TV will ultimately look choppy to them - they'll see the minute pause in between each frame. The transition to digital TVs will eliminate this problem, though I'm not sure it'll make watching the boob tube any more interesting to a dog not already interested. Oscar could completely care less when our TV is on - he does however really perk up if there are animal sounds on the radio...

The info above was gleaned from Alexandra Horowitz's, "Inside of a Dog" - a really excellent read on the way dog's physiology shapes their perception of the world (I know it's been mentioned on the forum...).

~Natalya

Thank you, Natalya, THAT's the info I was thinking of, except I had seen it regarding cat's vision.

Hi Connie – thank you for the information. I had done several searches through this forum on fear, counter-conditioning and desensitization and had read through several of your excellent threads. I suspect my first two posts were a bit incomplete and vague on what I have already tried.

The first time Mika displayed fear around the TV I’m afraid I misinterpreted her behavior and did not respond correctly. However, the next time, I recognized immediately that this was a fear reaction. Having observed her over a week or so, I decided to try desensitization. I have worked with several foster dogs that came to us with extreme fear and have often used desensitization methods successfully.

With my dog I started with the TV turned completely off and let her stand in the doorway approximately 20 feet away. This she did with no concern. I then turned the set on but left the sound on mute. At 20 ft. Mika simply looked at the set and backed away a few feet. I then worked with her at this, her perceived safe distance. We did some obedience drills and played with her favorite toys. I should mention that this is one of the keenest dogs I’ve owned when it comes to obedience work. She has always loved being challenged and took to commands in very short order. Even now doing obedience drills is her favorite play time activity.

After a week spent working at her “safe distance” I started moving her forward by calling her to me and offering a toy/play reward. Even at 20ft she showed some anxiety. We stepped back until she relaxed and spent another week working at this distance. Over the course of the next several months we spent considerable time working at various distances from the TV and I found that she will come within approximately 15 feet before showing extreme anxiety. Now, if the set is off she doesn’t even seem to identify it as the source of her anxiety. After 6 months of near daily exercises near the set, we were still at the 15 foot mark. Asking her to come closer immediately makes her shut down. She shakes, salivates and hyperventilates. This is pretty much where we are now – she will sit in the doorway, watching me, but no closer than about 15 feet from the TV. I should add that she does the same thing in other homes, although her fear is more pronounced and her “safe distance” much greater.

I’m going to toss something else out – although I’m still not sure I accept this idea. I spent 26 years as a clinical social worker specializing in work with children and teens affected by abuse and other trauma. Although I do not consider myself an expert on ADD or ADHD, I have had some experience with these complaints. Recently, I was discussing my dog’s behavior with a vet student working in my vet’s office. She told me that there are currently several studies being done on the possibility of a canine version of ADHD. Children with chemically linked ADHD often react poorly to cartoons and other high motion, rapid color changing television. Some have been known to have seizures while watching these type shows. In many ways, not just her odd behavior around the TV, my dog does show signs of what, in a child, would be labeled ADHD behavior. While she is a willing and quick learner, she really had a hard time settling down to learn the basics of obedience. Even now she occasionally loses focus and must be recalled to the job at hand. Some of this, from my experience, is merely age and high energy, but there may be other factors involved. At any rate, I wonder what anyone else thinks of this possibility – not just for my dog, but for any dog.

At 15 feet, then, is where I would stay for now, and making my focus two-pronged: I would only very gradually increase the "on-ness" of the TV while upping the dog's engagement with me.

That is, I'd begin by turning the TV on, volume off, with nothing on the screen but the dimmest of brightness on a non-channel. If the dog has to be 20 feet away with this change in the TV screen, OK. Meanwhile I would engage with the dog by doing or rewarding with whatever the dog loves best. I would probably not ask her to get closer to the TV as much as allow for accidental and incremental approaches and then immediate moving around. I'd probably make myself as focused as possible on the dog and not the TV, too. I think I would casually move the venue for playing, ob work, well-rewarded new commands (since she loves ob), focus work, etc., around the edge of her "zone," with no attention paid to the TV.

Is it also possible to get the TV off her level? That is, is it now close to floor level, and can it be raised?

About chemical/light-induced seizures, etc., yes, I've read enough about this (on a layman level) to have no doubt of the connection. I'm not sure I'd accept that something like this was in play here yet ... I think I'd up her engagement and pleasure, lower the brightness and motion on the screen, and not ask the dog to approach closer so much as to casually allow forays slightly into the bad zone and back out, unremarked, during the little training/reward/play sessions.

And, giving this more thought, I might remove the TV from the dog's view (or vice versa) for a while during the most active and strobe-y TV shows. I'm thinking that maybe sitting in the doorway and seeing the TV become uncomfortably busy/bright/active might undo some of each session's progress.

I don't think I'd give up, after getting from 20 feet to 15 feet, without incorporating (or trying) each of these steps.

It sounds like you have done a lot of exactly what I would do, and like you are very committed and devoted. Sometimes I have had to step back and remind myself to focus more on process and less on results in order to regain some of my casual, upbeat demeanor, and not infect the dog with my own concern.

You may not need that at all, of course. Just something I myself have to be careful of.


eta
I'd probably change the crate that's in the same room .... maybe face it in a different direction and also block the view of the TV.


Edited by Connie Sutherland (08/23/2010 05:59 PM)
Edit reason: eta

 Quote: Irene Troy

At any rate, I wonder what anyone else thinks of this possibility – not just for my dog, but for any dog.

Irene, don't know your dog, but I see no reason why characteristics of attention, and impluse control couldn't be distributed among dogs (or other critters, for that matter) in a similar distribution to how it is distributed among humans. There are beings at both ends of the spectrum.

 Quote: Rob Abel

 Quote: Irene Troy

At any rate, I wonder what anyone else thinks of this possibility – not just for my dog, but for any dog.

Irene, don't know your dog, but I see no reason why characteristics of attention, and impluse control couldn't be distributed among dogs (or other critters, for that matter) in a similar distribution to how it is distributed among humans. There are beings at both ends of the spectrum.

Me too, Rob.