Good info in here. One of those little things people don't necessarily think of until there's a problem.

I'm still trying to figure out why collar wise is a bad thing.
As long as the dog behaves properly without issues, why would I care?

For instance, my newest little snot (Strider) was (yeah this just happened yesterday) giving the older dog a hard time wanting to play. I didn't want any rough housing going on and Cass wasn't in the mood any ways, he didn't want to listen to me, I got tired of him continuely going back to it. I get a leash and put it on him. Magic! He settles down, drags it around the house for awhile and quietly goes and lays down to knock around a dong.

Should I now worry about him being leash wise?

If you think it's time to quit (and you want to stop with the bother) using a correction tool okay, wean them off the same way you would with the leash example....keep it handy for when they think they don't have to listen.

It just seems to me that is uncomfortable.. I know I really wouldn't want two prongs tight to my neck... I could make it looser but than when I did need to give a correction it would not contact.

 Quote: randy allen

I'm still trying to figure out why collar wise is a bad thing.
As long as the dog behaves properly without issues, why would I care?


Should I now worry about him being leash wise?

For me, ideally, and I'm not there yet, Falcon would do what I said regardless of whether he is on leash or wearing a prong or ecollar. If he ONLY obeys me when he knows I can correct him, obviously that leaves times he knows he can blow me off.

I'm assuming you would have PREFERRED Strider obey you without you having to get up and put his leash on, but yes, it is good that at least when you did, he began to listen. I'm at the same place but hope with more time and training the "tool" isn't what gets the results.

Smart dogs will get collar-wise, to any collar, pretty quickly but pretty much all dogs will figure it out over time. With that said, I still beleive that training is the key. My dogs don't really behave any differently with their collars on then they do with them off.

I use my e-collars for off- property.(when I take my dogs out to the fields to work them) But I have rarely had occasion to use them. (like 3 times in 6 yrs of multiple daily outings with multiple dogs) I like the security of knowing that I have it on them should the need arise.

I will also add....my dogs have NO negative feelings associated with their e-collar or prong collar. Quite the opposite....they jump around & scream with excitiemnt & the anticipation knowing that when these come out that they are going out to have lots of fun!

 Quote: Elizabeth Anderson

It just seems to me that is uncomfortable.. I know I really wouldn't want two prongs tight to my neck...

I hear what you’re saying here Elizabeth. We’ll be puttering around the house, the boys are all mellow and being sweet little angels (rare but it does happen – actually they’re pretty good) and then it’s time for a hike. I’ve just been caressing their silky soft sensitive necks and now I have to tighten two ¾ inch metal prongs to it.

Much like Anne, they stand well and are thrilled at the sight of them but I know they are tight; I put my fingers in there. I don’t like the feel of the dull prods on my fingers and often catch myself wishing I didn’t have to use them. They definitely know they are on and I couldn’t ask for better behavior. I as well, can’t remember the last time I had to stim one of them; the vibrate instantly corrects any ideas they may have of blowing me off.

But you know, I think this one is all about me. I think of 5 years from now (my boys are young too) and I’m imagining how far we will be with their obedience levels, but still, on our mountain hikes, I can’t imagine not having them on. They are such a wonderful way to reach out and touch them should any type of urgency require it. They just give me that added sense of security to be comfortable and confident at all times. Wonderful tools.

I am hoping though, that there will be advances in them. Perhaps something electronic that could have flat emitting points. I was thinking last night too, as we were walking along, the power pack type box is so bulky - wouldn’t it be nice if there was some kind of illuminating light in there, aside from the small green flashing “on” indicator. Could kill two birds with one stone and make them a REALLY practical collar.

Well yes Barb I would have prefered Strider listened and as a rule he does pretty well for his age, but the point is, collar wise, leash wise shrug so what. The tools are just one step toward making the dog voice wise.
You're not hearing Ann complain because her dogs are collar wise and you probably won't inless they knock something off the coffee table in their excitement of having them put on.
Her dogs are also collar wise.

Is one going to complain because their dog is reward wise?
I submit it's exactly the same thing only we're saying collar rather then treat.

The tool IS what gets the results you're looking for Barb and why the dog seemingly responds sans whatever 'tool' one happens to be using or have used. I think the proper name for it is operant conditioning.

So what if the dog is collar wise?

 Quote: randy allen

Well yes Barb I would have prefered Strider listened and as a rule he does pretty well for his age, but the point is, collar wise, leash wise shrug so what. The tools are just one step toward making the dog voice wise.
You're not hearing Ann complain because her dogs are collar wise and you probably won't inless they knock something off the coffee table in their excitement of having them put on.
Her dogs are also collar wise.

Is one going to complain because their dog is reward wise?
I submit it's exactly the same thing only we're saying collar rather then treat.

The tool IS what gets the results you're looking for Barb and why the dog seemingly responds sans whatever 'tool' one happens to be using or have used. I think the proper name for it is operant conditioning.

So what if the dog is collar wise?

Randy, I hadn't thought of the voice or treats in the same way I think of the collar or leash - interesting - and yep, it makes perfect sense. The treats are also used to get the dog to obey or perform a specific behavior, as are the collar and leash... All leading hopefully to just the voice command and a happy dog.

Hmmm... thanks - that makes sense.

And I have no doubt your dogs are pretty well trained...

Nah, they're brats.
But they behave okay if I keep Dennis's tool of choice handy.

 Quote: randy allen

But they behave okay if I keep Dennis's tool of choice handy.

Yep, that works for mine too, Randy...... heavy, heavy hangs over your head.......

NOTHING like a 2 x 4 to inlicit compliance.