Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Dennis Jones ]
#296578 - 09/16/2010 12:43 AM |
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So where do the breed specific altering recommendations come into play?
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Michael_Wise ]
#296579 - 09/16/2010 01:03 AM |
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Recommendations pointed at ignorant owners, who are in over their heads?
People who bought the breed for the 'status' the image of the breed brings? (Not that those kind of people would seek out advice on a website on options of if and when to neuter the mentioned stereotyped breeds)
Just ideas. I dunno, really.
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Kelly Byrd ]
#296585 - 09/16/2010 05:38 AM |
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Ed said that his opinions as a trainer have changed over time. Maybe that's one of them. There's a couple articles floating around the site that are outdated. Maybe that's the case?
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Dennis Jones ]
#296587 - 09/16/2010 06:52 AM |
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It all depends on your reason for neutering. If the reason is to curtail future aggression issues then you should get the dog neutered between 6 months and 9 months.
I would be unlikely that you are having any serious aggression issues at 6 months - the dog is too young. It's still a puppy. Dogs dont get dominant aggressive (if thats going to happen and it is more often in these breeds I mention) it will be at maturity - 18 to 30 months of age.
I understand why people what told you to wait but the fact is neutering an older dog is not going to do anything for aggression issues. This is seen a lot when monorchid police service dogs are neutered after they have matured. There is zero effect on their bite work skills.
There have been studies done that confirm these issues.
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Ed Frawley ]
#296599 - 09/16/2010 08:52 AM |
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It has been suggested that skeletal development is negatively affected by early neutering.
My pup, castrated at 4 mos, is showing some peculiar lameness issues which are a real drag.
On the plus side, at 1 yr he pees only a few times a day, the shrubbery around my home is intact, and recreational humping of his big ball and stuffed toys, a practice he was getting really into, has thankfully gone away.
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Betty Landercasp ]
#296602 - 09/16/2010 09:35 AM |
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I neutered my male Doberman before sexual maturity because I knew I was only likely to participate in AKC sports with him and I wanted to avoid the male/male aggression that is prevalent in mature Dobermans. I knew this dog would be my near constant companion at home and while traveling, and would have to have stellar and trustworthy behaviour in the presence of other dogs. Mission accomplished.
My dog's sire, neutered as a mature adult for prostate issues, is still male aggressive.
Physically, my dog is much taller and leggier than the other males of his line (and he's my first experience with a neutered male) so I can visibly SEE the effect the procedure had on his growth. He DID take longer than his predecessors to mature mentally, but it did happen.
At four years old he's a very healthy, happy and fun dog who can be quite serious when he needs to be, though he definitely lacks the 'edge' that I'm used to seeing in a male Doberman. If I were doing one of the protection sports I would NOT have neutered this guy.
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Kristel Smart ]
#296609 - 09/16/2010 10:53 AM |
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My dog's sire, neutered as a mature adult for prostate issues, is still male aggressive.
Physically, my dog is much taller and leggier than the other males of his line (and he's my first experience with a neutered male) so I can visibly SEE the effect the procedure had on his growth. He DID take longer than his predecessors to mature mentally, but it did happen.
We waited till Oscar was 2 before neutering, mainly for the physical development issues - would have passed on it entirely if he hadn't become intact-male aggressive, at roughly 18m. At the time (noob) I just wanted the aggression and "edginess" to stop, and neutering, as we all know, is the #1 first suggestion you'll get from most... little did I understand that by the time that type of behavior starts, it's too late for neutering to have much of an effect (ahh, hindsight). Oscar is definitely less intense than he used to be, but I can tell an intact male from 50 feet away because he'll still key up at the first scent of those hormones - and he WILL make an ass of himself if the situation isn't managed.
Ed explained his statements well - neutering to curb dominance aggression (in breeds that are prone - Rotts and PBs may be unfairly singled out here, but there are certainly breeds that are prone) is just a catch 22 - you have to do it prematurely if you have any hope of it curtailing testosterone fueled behavioral issues, but there's no way to know if you're going to have problems unless you wait and see (at which point it may be too late). Again, if you have a working dog, or are just intensely dedicated to training, management, and the responsibility that comes with having an intact, serious minded adult male, by all means, wait for maturity - or don't neuter at all!
*Kristel also keenly pointed out how she expected her dog to mature, given the temperament of it's sire (and perhaps even individuals further back in the pedigree - since she was a breeder) - to the OP, it may be a good idea to check back with this Rott's breeder and, if it hasn't already been done, ask about the temperament and any aggression in it's parents and grandparents, siblings, or grown pups out of the same sire and/or dam. Could be good info to know.
~Natalya
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Kristel Smart ]
#296610 - 09/16/2010 10:55 AM |
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Ed, great post. But I think some of us might still be wondering - is it breed specific? Do you recommend neutering certain breeds early because they have a higher chance of showing dominant aggression at maturity than others?
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Katie Finlay ]
#296616 - 09/16/2010 11:44 AM |
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Katie, I have to ask..what is that animal in the picture?
Thanks for all the responses everyone - this is very helpful.
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Re: Contradicting Information
[Re: Ryan Rubel ]
#296618 - 09/16/2010 12:31 PM |
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Could it be a baby Marmoset?
Brodie
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