Quote: melissa thom

When you combine with that the knowledge level of the average pet owner combined with the idea that owners expect a magic wand to cure their dogs of all their ills but only up to a certain dollar amount. It's gotta be infuriating.

Agreed. And it's very awkward for us sometimes. I had a patient in a room for a tech visit. She was a chihuahua almost completely hairless from what looked like allergy related skin problems. She was just there for a rabies vaccination. The lady said, oh I don't know, at least 20 times how she had no money and her daughter had to send her the money for the rabies vaccination. Then she actually started crying in the room and just kept talking about how hard things were for her and she knows she's a bad dog owner but she doesn't want to give her dog up to the shelter and we don't have to tell her how awful she is. I said we would never tell her something like that, and we did a nail trim (needed) for free. But what else can we do? And what do we say to that? I mean, to think about it, one microscope for us to do a skin test costs about $5,000. We have to make back that money somehow.

And then we get the people who just want to euthanize their animals that they can't afford to take care of, which happens much more often that most people think. And it doesn't matter how sweet they are, we have to do it. It sucks. Friday we had a couple bring in a Lab to get her spayed so they could turn her into a rescue without having to pay (they just didn't want her anymore, "too crazy," because they never bothered to train her to even sit).

And then of course the people that yell at us and tell us how expensive we are. Especially to the techs. We don't have any sort of control over prices.

What's really been interesting is having a background in medical billing going into the veterinary world. The prices really aren't that different. If you came in cash to get an xray, it would only cost a tiny bit more because you're bigger than your dog or cat. Vaccines are generally the same price, some a little more expensive. Pharmacy is much cheaper for animals. Office visits are cheaper for animals. But extensive surgery and testing is about the same price. Lab work, depending on what's done, is similar. And think of treatments. Even with insurance, if you get cancer, you'll be in debt for the next ten years, if not longer. Be thankful it's not the same for our pets.

If you'd pay the money to take care of yourself, you should be willing to do it for your pets.

*sigh*

I agree that we need to do research on our own for both our pets and ourselves. I just wish more people realized it.

I know my vet is in it to make money...he has a family to feed, employees to pay, gee, bills. I also know my vet is in it for the animals.

Vets make money giving vaccines. It is a bread and butter thing for them. Vacs cost are a fraction of the charge and a large part is 'labor' and feeds profit. My vet isn't totally keen that I give my own vacs but they love me so they accept it. Other than Rabies it is often an option.

As for lepto. It is zoonotic....people can get it. It is very contagious and often very damaging or deadly. I have been tested for it in my doctors quest to find out what is wrong with me. I have had a couple scares from clients dogs and the possibility of their dogs having it while kenneled with me. If that had happened (thankfully it didn't) the health department could and would close me down. Serious stuff, not just greedy vets.

Kate, my vet SO HATES people that euth due to money. Nothing will put him in a worse mood then a hit by car and people without any money...not not having hundreds...but NONE.

I personally have a pet peeve against people who choose CHEAP. They ask me who my vet is....I tell them and that I have been with them for 25yrs and that I love that they were the first in the area with several of the 'gadgets', that they love the animals and have a great deal of experience. Then I get...oh, but they are expensive (they aren't the worst, they aren't the cheapest....) and "they probably give 'you' a discount 'cause you have been going there for so long." Yes, and I have a folder an inch and a half thick and have my account number memorized. I also am a referral for them for simple reptile and exotics questions so they can SAVE their clients some money for husbandry issues.

Edited by Sonya Gilmore (09/19/2010 09:09 PM)
Edit reason: reply to kate

Sonya,
I manage a Multi Species Animal Rescue (www.furrytalefarm.org) and our owner has a theory. (Please, no one attack me for this!!! I know we have some retired DVM's out there. I also worked for both large and small animal vets- I love you guys!!) But anyhow- my boss says that in her experience (50 years of animal rescue, over 10 as a non-profit business) the large animal vets are in it for the animals, and the small animal vets are in it for the $$$. In some instances I can see that. Colic happens at all hours of the night. I don't know of many 'emergency' large animal hospitals. Wanna know why? Your horse goes down from colic at 3AM, and your call your vet. Not the case with many small animal hospitals. The phones all get forwarded to the nearest trauma center, or emergency clinic. That said... I had the fortunate opportunity to work for a small animal vet that I believe truly was in it for the animals, so I know they are out there.

Both the equine and small animal vets I've worked for have actually refused to euth a clients animal for reasons like a small broken bone simply requiring a cast. She offers to find the animal a home instead. We are lucky to have lots of local rescues though, that can afford some medical bills to save a young, otherwise healthy animal.

Working as a vet tech in a small animal hospital, I once had a lady yell at me so severely over the cost of her cats nail trim ($10, pretty average from what I've seen) that I CRIED! I'm a pretty tough cookie normally, but this woman made me feel like I was stealing money and she would get evicted for not paying rent, because I took her $10. Only took me 15 min. Never mind the fact we had to wrap her cat in 3 towels to keep our eyeballs intact.

 Quote: katie finlay

And then of course the people that yell at us and tell us how expensive we are. Especially to the techs. We don't have any sort of control over prices.

What's really been interesting is having a background in medical billing going into the veterinary world. The prices really aren't that different. If you came in cash to get an xray, it would only cost a tiny bit more because you're bigger than your dog or cat. Vaccines are generally the same price, some a little more expensive. Pharmacy is much cheaper for animals. Office visits are cheaper for animals. But extensive surgery and testing is about the same price. Lab work, depending on what's done, is similar. And think of treatments. Even with insurance, if you get cancer, you'll be in debt for the next ten years, if not longer. Be thankful it's not the same for our pets.

If you'd pay the money to take care of yourself, you should be willing to do it for your pets.

*sigh*

I agree that we need to do research on our own for both our pets and ourselves. I just wish more people realized it.

We have a huge problem with that here, in Canada (at least at the clinics I have worked at). Because nobody really pays for serious health care for themselves, and it is covered by the government (to varying degrees, depending on the province). People have no idea what it actually costs if you were to need blood work or to brake an arm. They have no clue what it costs to run a hospital, run labs, buy equipment, etc. On the other hand, also being a pet owner, does it seem "fair" to me that a vet just spent 5 or 10 minutes, took an xray & some blood and now I'm out hundreds of dollars? Of course not. But as any business owner knows, there is so much more leading up to those 10 minutes...

As for vaccines, I have found the standard to be the generally acceptable one (I think) on this forum. The first 2 DAP, then rabies, then a booster & rabies @ 1 year, then rabies every 3 years. Some vets also recommend to follow up with the DAP. One of the vets I work with actually convinced a lady not to get a giardia vaccine the other day...

I don't know if this is a difference in countries, or just coincidence that I haven't worked for any vet clinic, or as a pet owner ever been offered anything other than the vaccines mentioned above.

Our vets take some animals and find them new homes, but it's not easy and we can't do it for every animal.

I disagree somewhat with your theory though, Kelly. I think that large animal vets do emergency calls because there aren't enough of them. Look at the human doctors. If our doctors took every emergency call, they'd have no time for regular office visits. We have an urgent care at my work (at a human doctor's office), but we don't do emergency calls. Urgent care is generally same day appointments. But if you're having severe chest pain and dizziness, there's nothing we can do for you. We don't have the equipment. We can do an EKG, but that's about it. If you're having serious chest pain, you need to go to the emergency room because you're in life threateneing danger, more likely than not. You wouldn't believe the number of people who refuse to go to the ER. We have to write notes in their charts accurately documenting these instances, so in case they die, their families can't sue us.

And think if it were the other way around. Can you imagine if all emergency rooms were filled with people who have pharyngitis or an upset stomach? There would be no time for people who really are in an emergency.

We have the offices separate for reasons. Because we need to spread out the number of people going to certain facilities. It's not that they don't care, it's that they want you to get the best care that you can at the appropriate place. Not to mention that critical care is entirely different than generally practice.

I don’t have much to add to the interesting experiences here other than I have finally found a vet that I totally see eye to eye with and really think he has out best interests at heart.

On another sad note, I thought this was appalling. Two healthy dogs dead, just because the vet was p’d that they couldn’t pay the bill. Rescues even came forward asking for 24 hours, but nope, out with the blue liquid.

http://www.winknews.com/Local-Florida/2010-08-20/Angry-protesters-camp-outside-Lehigh-animal-hospital

http://web.mit.edu/ariely/www/MIT/

Dan Ariely is a professor at MIT. He teacher behavioral economics. In his book Predictably Irrational he describes experiments that were done on people who helped because they felt it was their moral responsibility and did it for free and people who got paid for it. The first group did much better at their assignments than the second group. The book is fascinating and his website is too. He just wrote another book and I want to get it, I loved the first one so much!

I am not suggesting vets should work for free but this discussion reminded me of the two groups of people Ariely mentions in his book. I think any job in life where there is moral responsibility involved has these two groups of people and when people start to focus solely on money it all goes down the hill. I am not talking about business in general, I am talking about jobs that deal specifically with either human or animal care of any sorts.

My vet doesn't just euth anyone. But he can't rescue every animal the owners can't afford either. He has some he has kept, some his staff have kept and many he has homed with clients. We call it our freak shows. At the same time I don't think my vet is in it for the money beyond needing to stay in business. He has two other vets on staff besides himself and his wife. His son interned there this summer. He has an exotics vet in one day a week.

They were the first vets in the area to have an ultrasound and several other 'gadgets'.

They have separated themselves for the 'call circle' of emergency hour vets because several lazy ones were simply referring to Cornell and pissing people off. Some think that is keen and some (such as myself) think it is a gyp. Cornell costs triple for the same services. Plus surgerys are closed by students and half the time the 'specialist' isn't in when you have your emergency.(I waited 7 hrs for the repro specialist once...just for pitocin.)
They are good for exotic necropsies though.

So, I love my vets.

That's a horrible story. I don't understand how a vet could do that rather than let a rescue org take the dogs. So the dogs end up paying the price for people's mistakes and irresponsibility.

 Quote: Sonya Gilmore

My vet doesn't just euth anyone. But he can't rescue every animal the owners can't afford either. He has some he has kept, some his staff have kept and many he has homed with clients. We call it our freak shows. At the same time I don't think my vet is in it for the money beyond needing to stay in business. He has two other vets on staff besides himself and his wife. His son interned there this summer. He has an exotics vet in one day a week.

This, IMO, sounds like most of the vets in my area. They do what they can, but just like any other shelter/rescue organization, they can't save them all.