Thanks for all the suggestions everyone I tried removing all bedding from the crate last week and all it did was make the pee go everywhere (all over him and my flooring underneath the kennel). I've already tested him for a UTI so I know that's not the cause either. I know the breeder kept the pups most of the time indoors in a gated kitchen. They played a lot in an outdoor yard as well. I don't know what he used for flooring indoors (pee pads, newspaper, etc?) He also had puppy crates that they stayed in at night (two story crate with a wire bottom so any waste would fall through).

 Quote: Olivia Brown

Connie, I get what you're saying but I'm positive we aren't leaving him in there too long w/o a break. He is in there for a max of 30 minutes at a time unless it's night time or we are all away from the house (rare). He can go for hours without peeing in the house when he's out playing, but when he's in the crate, he always seems to go...even if we've just taken him out.

Olivia, the issue isn't that he can't hold it, it's that he does not understand that peeing in the crate is something that he shouldn't do. Hence, the super frequent trips outside, to never give him the opportunity to pee in the crate. Once he makes the association that peeing is only done outside, he will stop peeing in the crate.

Lynne- Like I said, he already gets frequent trips outside. If I take him out any more, it's going to be like literally every 10 minutes and since we live in a two story townhome and I have two young children, that just isn't realistic. I take him out every 30 minutes and he will usually only go every 2-3 hours so many of those trips are spent with him just standing there or sniffing around. I'm rewarding him (marker training) when he goes and even if he tries...sometimes he just squats but nothing comes out....so I'm definitely trying to associate it with positive feedback. When I DO catch him peeing in the crate, I will obviously scold him in a firm voice and take him outside immediately.

 Quote: Olivia Brown

...sometimes he just squats but nothing comes out....

How long ago was he tested for a UTI? What tests did the vet run to rule out a UTI?

You have asked for help & have gotten good info....

If it was my pup & I had to take him out every 10 minutes to teach him to stop peeing in his crate (& I have had a pup that was a PITA to crate train) I would do it & have. It would most likely only take a couple of days or so to turn things around if you are really committed & consistant about it. Been there & it took several days to change things. I also would not repermand him, as I think he is very confused about what he should & should not do.

It would have been less demanding, with your other commitments, to have gotten an older dog & not a pup. To raise healthy, happy, well-trained pups, takes a ton of time to do it right. They have to be a priority & that is not always possible with multiple other commitments.

Good luck with the pup, I hope it all works out for you both.

 Quote: Olivia Brown

I tried removing all bedding from the crate last week and all it did was make the pee go everywhere (all over him and my flooring underneath the kennel). I've already tested him for a UTI so I know that's not the cause either.

If medical conditions have been ruled out. I am guessing you are using a wire crate? I would try a plastic crate perhaps being more enclosed will keep him from going, the plastic crates hold the pee better. Maybe you can borrow a plastic crate for a short period of time.

I would also feed him in the crate if you are not doing so already.

 Quote: olivia brown

... When I DO catch him peeing in the crate, I will obviously scold him in a firm voice and take him outside immediately.

I don't correct, verbally or in any way, for peeing in the wrong place. I think the dog is not clear on the way it works yet, and I don't want any kind of corrections around something the dog doesn't "get" yet.

I'd have him tethered to me.

I'd really want to put in the time/effort-attention now, no matter how much it took, to straighten this out. Every time the dog pees in the crate is reinforcement for peeing in the crate. And IMO (after a ton of experience), correcting just adds to the problem.

I understand the challenge (I really understand it on every level -- been there, done that, and with adopted dogs with much bigger issues), and I know now (at my advanced age) that there is no shortcut ... there is only committing to having the dog outside when he has to go and being in a position to see him every time he starts to squat/leg-lift (whatever) so I can get him outside to praise him for doing the deed in the right place ... no matter that I had to get him there myself a few times.



PS
The squatting with no result would make me drop off a spec even if he had been tested in the past for a UTI.

 Quote: Olivia Brown

Lynne- Like I said, he already gets frequent trips outside. If I take him out any more, it's going to be like literally every 10 minutes

Have you tethered him to you? I can't say enough about tethering, even though it starts out a tad awkward.

Bonding, learning his potty body-language, pack leadership --- there isn't much that doesn't benefit from it.

If he checks out clear of a UTI I would wonder is crating upsetting him? I have had dogs that as pups especially would just shut off all reason and soak themselves, or scream hysterically, or bark incessantly. Some would do all three and totally freak out, others just sulk and soak. All this is if they are crated when it wasn't their idea....like, most of the time. But if they went in on their own and I just happen to shut them in they were fine. Finally, at about a year, they adjusted and were cool with it. It helped that I tended to give them a wonderful bone that they only got crated. Seems like they were just totally slow learners. Heck, one of our border collies couldn't be crated til about a year or she entirely lost it. Screaming, clawing the door til her nails bled, chewing the door, peeing, pooping....just turned inside out. We used to baby gate her into the bathroom....as she chose that place to sleep and to put herself to sleep. (she was a july baby and hugged the cool porcelin) She did fine with it and was calm and totally non destructive. At about a year she started using her crate like a normal dog.

Had a foster that did as yours....just pee as soon as they were crated. She did settle out of it. We distracted with raw bones and tons of praise and open crates while we were home.


Things that helped. Definitely as others said..... don't give bedding.

Practice crating with loads of praise.


Best ours got was the juicy chew bone.

Wire grate for the floor....so the pee settled away from them and not soak them. That helped me, since they seemed to not care that they smelled funky but I was sick of bathing them.

Thanks for all the input I will try to address the concerns/questions some of you have mentioned. First, I am confident he does not have a uti. He has been tested twice, both by a vet and myself (former vet tech and I still have the tools to test his urine). He urinates on command which is why he is squatting....I am telling him to "go potty" so he attempts it, even if he doesn't have to go. Every dog I've ever owned has done this so it's not a concern to me...just shows me that he is correctly associating the behavior with the command. As for the comment that we should have gotten an older dog, I really don't even see why that was mentioned. I was fully aware of the commitment that a puppy takes and since Malinois are very rare where we live, we were very excited to have found him. My husband is a cop and given Vader's bloodlines and the fact that we have been looking for a mal for years (to use for possible police work), we gladly bought him. We are very experienced dog owners and are well aware of what is involved with raising a puppy. I've managed a show dog kennel that had over 20 puppies at a time so we knew what we were getting into when we bought Vader. This is a problem that I've never encountered before though which is why I was asking for help. I really appreciate everyone's advice and I will definitely be trying some different things to see what works. So far today he hasn't peed in his crate at all so I'm hopeful that we will have an accident free night as well. Thanks again and keep your fingers crossed for us