Oh.. I did forget 1-2 oz of ground turkey/beef in the AM... My wife reminded me.. We package it all up in freezer bags. I am doing about 7% of his body weight a day in food. He is a good weight so far.

In a raw diet, as you see in the LB puppy and adult sample diets, around half is raw meaty bones (like your backs) and the other half is muscle meat (and then we add the organ meat, a little produce, etc.) The digestible bone contained in that half that's RMBs balances the calcium/phosphorus ratio.

If the RMBs are pieces of whole poultry with all that thigh and breast meat, the added MM can be smaller than with narrow backs or other not-so-meaty RMBs.

And there's a range of CA:Ph, too. The range is roughly 1:1 to 2:1, so you see we aren't doing tenths of ounces here.

The ideal for most life stages is 1.2:1 to 1.4:1.

The LB suggested diets fall well within the acceptable ranges, and in fact are just about the ideal.

These LB diets (and the diets in the books linked) would replicate in calcium and phosphorus (for one diet example) the entire small rodent prey the wild canid would eat plus the boneless meat from undigestible leg bones he might get from taking down large prey.

 Quote: John Lister

I believe he may have done the splits on my wood floors..

John, have you ever tried doing splits on a slick surface wearing some nice no-friction clothing? Most people won't be able to walk for days. I'd take care of this issue in addition to any diet review you are doing.

John, I don't see any organ meats on your food list. I am assuming that since the pup is 4 mo old, that you have been feeding him raw for 2 mo.(since you got him home) I would start to add some organ meat slowly to his meal. Take livers slowly, as they are the one that seems to trigger loose stool the most, but all organ meat can if given in too large a quantity.

I would also suggest that you feed 3 meals a day until 6 months if at all possible, as the larger meals, that pups need to sustain proper growth,can also trigger loose stool.

Sometimes with young pups it is more nutrionally sound to feed a premade frozen raw diet, like Bravo, for the first couple of months in order to insure that the balance is proper for a rapidly developing pup. I still add the suppliments & fish etc. But these foods are available in a variety of meats, with organ meat & veggies in them so that you can have variety, which is key to a balanced diet. I have done that with all 3 of my pups & given them necks & back occasionally as recreational bones just to get them ready to handle them in the future as the mainstay of their diet. I know a couple of others that do this also, to insure proper diet for the first few months when it is the most important for development. Just a thought.

ETA....Ditto on the slippery floors. I have wood floors in my home & I don't allow pups to do anything but walk in the house. This is taught from the first day that they are here. Your pup can do a great deal of damage to itself slipping around. Hips are only 1 on the things that can go wrong from feet slipping out from under them.

I don't disagree, and normally we have rugs run all over any of our hard surfaces, except I had them outside to clean them..

Him and I where playing with a stuffed duck toy that is very soft for his teeth and he decided to run to the kitchen to grab a drink and put the whole duck in the water. When I walked into the kitchen he had carred the duck over the floor and slipped on it.. maybe not full splits, but wide enough for me to say ouch too.

I did tell the Vet about that as well..

 Quote: Anne Jones

John, I don't see any organ meats on your food list. I am assuming that since the pup is 4 mo old, that you have been feeding him raw for 2 mo.(since you got him home) I would start to add some organ meat slowly to his meal. Take livers slowly, as they are the one that seems to trigger loose stool the most, but all organ meat can if given in too large a quantity.

I would also suggest that you feed 3 meals a day until 6 months if at all possible, as the larger meals, that pups need to sustain proper growth,can also trigger loose stool.

Sometimes with young pups it is more nutrionally sound to feed a premade frozen raw diet, like Bravo, for the first couple of months in order to insure that the balance is proper for a rapidly developing pup. I still add the suppliments & fish etc. But these foods are available in a variety of meats, with organ meat & veggies in them so that you can have variety, which is key to a balanced diet. I have done that with all 3 of my pups & given them necks & back occasionally as recreational bones just to get them ready to handle them in the future as the mainstay of their diet. I know a couple of others that do this also, to insure proper diet for the first few months when it is the most important for development. Just a thought.

ETA....Ditto on the slippery floors. I have wood floors in my home & I don't allow pups to do anything but walk in the house. This is taught from the first day that they are here. Your pup can do a great deal of damage to itself slipping around. Hips are only 1 on the things that can go wrong from feet slipping out from under them.

So is hearts, gizzards and liver not organ meat?

Also..

Okay so I don't let him Run in the house. though he does still take off once in a while. I normally grab his leash when he does.. I am sitting on a broken ankle and can't get his leash as fast as normal. (I went camping and some nut that was probably drunk ran me off the road while I was hiking). That said, I still let him play with chew toys in the house.. I am assuming that is okay.. (I do supervise the toy because he will devour it within minutes.)

Heats are actually muscle meat (the heart is a muscle) but is also by some considered an organ meat. I give additional organ meat when using it. Gizzards are also muscle meat. But again used by some as organ meat. I also remember Cindy mentioning this years ago on a post.

I didn't see that you had liver listed..I must have missed it. But I would go slow on the liver, try some beef or pork kidney or pork liver also & also pork as muscel meat, lamb also. I feed goat & buffalo for variety, too. But you want to reserve one kind of meat as a novel meat for the future if needed. Work up tot he larger variety over some time, sice you are working with a young pup. But you need to have enough muscle meat to go with the RMSs.

Think like Connie said....thing WHOLE prey model. If you cut a whole chicken into quaters... look at the meat that would be attached to each piece in addition to the bones. If you fed a leg qtr at one meal, breast qtr at another & so on. That is the ratio amounts that you are aiming for in the long run. Obviously in smaller amounts geared to the pups size etc. But also adding the organ meats. Look at the pics of some of the meals that LB has shone in the feeding bowls, that may help.

Tether him to you & then he can't run.

Give him a bully stick to chew on or a kongs stuffed with peanut butter or cream cheese & freeze it & then toss into his crate with him to knosh on. It will be messy if you let him eat it around the house. Or try a washcloth that has been wetted, rolled up & frozen & then given to him to chew on if he is still teething. I would watch to take it away when it gets too thawed out, so he can't chew a piece off & eat it. I have also used very large frozen carrots for young pups when teething.

 Quote: Anne Jones

Heats are actually muscle meat (the heart is a muscle) but is also by some considered an organ meat. I give additional organ meat when using it. Gizzards are also muscle meat. But again used by some as organ meat. I also remember Cindy mentioning this years ago on a post.

I didn't see that you had liver listed..I must have missed it. But I would go slow on the liver, try some beef or pork kidney or pork liver also & also pork as muscel meat, lamb also. I feed goat & buffalo for variety, too. But you want to reserve one kind of meat as a novel meat for the future if needed. Work up tot he larger variety over some time, sice you are working with a young pup. But you need to have enough muscle meat to go with the RMSs.

Think like Connie said....thing WHOLE prey model. If you cut a whole chicken into quaters... look at the meat that would be attached to each piece in addition to the bones. If you fed a leg qtr at one meal, breast qtr at another & so on. That is the ratio amounts that you are aiming for in the long run. Obviously in smaller amounts geared to the pups size etc. But also adding the organ meats. Look at the pics of some of the meals that LB has shone in the feeding bowls, that may help.

I really have read around 3 books on this now.. Its amazing how easy/hard this is LOL.. One day I will make it past rookie.

With all the dog food recalls I am pretty happy with my choice.

I will re-exam what I am feeding him to try to memic more of the whole pray.