Quote: Cat Richter

.... Connie i dont know how to link, I can go back later tonight and try to find it(cartophen). I found it by googling the actual ingredient thats in cartrophen, something with a p, its used for humans as a blood thinner and said humans with liver problems should not use it so was wondering if that applied to dogs as well.

No, I don't think so. You might want to discuss it with your vet, but I think you're talking about the problem of pentosan polysulfate sodium in human patients with cirrhosis. In dogs, I believe the major contraindication is clotting insufficiency or whatever you call failure to clot normally.

Unfortunately, it also can't be used in animal patients who have infections, so it would be a down-the-road thing in this case. Meanwhile, the vet probably has printed material.

 Quote: Becky Shilling

.... Bland, easy to digest food is recommended - baby food meat is great for short term and they usually like it.

Do you have a veterinary teaching hospital nearby that you can get him into?

Two great suggestions.

Cat,

While I absolutely agree with the previous recommendations for dealing asap with the pain and infection, I notice you mentioned that he has had high liver enzymes for a while. This would have me thinking about the possibility of chronic hepatitis or cirrhosis (not uncommon in old dogs). Underlying liver problems can be linked with chronic pancreatitis, and could be a contributing factor in the depression and loss of appetite. Do you know which enzymes were high on the most recent blood work and what were the numbers? I would consider starting him on milk thistle and SAMe for the liver issues - they won't interact negatively with antibiotics or anything else you are doing, and in my experience they can really help with failing liver function.

There is good info on using milk thistle in dogs at http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/milk_thistle.htm. For SAMe (S-adenosyl methionine) the dose is 20 mg per kg and the version sold for humans works fine. I have a lot more info on managing canine liver problems if it would help (been there...)

Connie yes thats the ingredient, i was 2 lazy to google it, that answers my question, You are so smart! I must have read that ingredient 10 times to try to remember it for the vet and got there and couldnt 4 the life of me. I will definitely take your awesome suggestion at writing all my questions down b/c your right, I have so many and when I go in I get all quiet and its so frusterating....

I took Buddy out to the park the other day with the dogs, just a big field, and he couldnt really walk much but even just lying there I think he was happy to be out with the dogs and us someplace different! Its hard having 3 dogs with 3 differnt energy levels, walk 2 other dogs(cane corso &dutchie)for an hr, walk Buddy seperately and then the dutchie needs more than a walk she needs a bike ride or off leash....not complaining, its worth it!

I will have to try to stay upbeat for Buddy and stop stressing(i think i've developed a constant eye twitch) lol. I dont want my emotions to be a burden for him, hes bin there for me so now I have to be there for him...I hate leaving him, I always take like 5 min to say goodbye thinking what if its the last time and I didnt kiss/hug/smell his fur....then he probably takes on those feelings of dread, poor dog.....

Thanks so much for all the amazing help. You've bin more help than any of my vets thus far....


Sarah, I will have to get those numbers sometime this week i hope to bring him in to the vet to follow up and see whats next. He is on milk thistle and the holistic vet had suggested SAMe, I started researching it amongst a thousand other things, seemed pretty safe...heard it helps mood too which would be nice.

Sarah, if he had hepatitis or cirrhosis(dk what that is)would it have shown up on the bloodwork? will definitely take you up on any info you have about liver problems, first hand experience is the best. I will let you know this week more when i see the vet. Thanks again.

 Quote: Cat Richter

.... the holistic vet had suggested SAMe, I started researching it amongst a thousand other things, seemed pretty safe...heard it helps mood too which would be nice. ...

SAMe is one of those things that we took way too long in this country to approve/research/use. JMO. Around 1996 it started to be available here; it had been used for decades in western Europe.

I have so many saved papers on the beneficial effects on the liver of SAMe .... they are exceeded only by the number of papers I have saved on its mood/depression benefits. (A small side note on the mood benefits: Many of the research articles I've read have concluded that SAMe is often recommended or instructed to be taken in doses too low for its full effect. I'd recommend that people - humans - who want to try SAMe for its effect on mental/emotional well-being do a lot of reading on dosage. Also of critical importance is that SAMe is too volatile to be packaged loose in a bottle; if it's not packaged in sheets of foil blister-packs, it's not worth buying. JMO, after a load of reading. I'm not a health professional of any kind, and I'm just repeating what I've learned from studying published research.)

I will hunt up some of the liver research I have. The lab work is mostly rodent research, probably because expensive trials on humans aren't viewed as cost-effective on a natural product like this that isn't and can't be patented. But the evidence is overwhelming (IMO) about its effects.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1327655

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.1993.tb00065.x/abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8679834


And specifically from a small-animal vet POV:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=1+2135&aid=3062

http://www.vetinfo.com/canine-liver-disease.html

http://www.dog-health-guide.org/doghealthliver.html
(Scroll down to "Dog Health Liver Antioxidants")

I came across this:
http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag97/june-report972.html

The article itself is pretty rah-rah (remember that this particular article is selling the product), but the list at the end "For Further Reading" looks good.

Thanks for the info on SAMe, good to know about the packaging 2 that I wouldn't have even thought of.

Thanks for the links, i will be staying in tonight and doing a lot of reading and research and compling questions for the vet.

thanks again

 Quote: Cat Richter

Thanks for the info on SAMe, good to know about the packaging 2 that I wouldn't have even thought of. ...

I would not have thought of it, either. That tidbit came from the ConsumerLab site. They found that SAMe that was not blister-packed did not contain the SAMe that it was said to on the label, and they researched it and concluded that it was the packaging rather than deliberate manufacturer under-supply.

Yet there are still several producers supplying it in a bottle, so consumer beware.