Ann I agree with you that there are some dogs that will not ever get along. I see in your picture you have two gsd side by side. I think the male would basically get a long with the puppy, but like you said puppies can be irratating and I wouldnt put him through that, or risk the puppy getting hurt.That didnt occur to me earlier. As far as pack structure I am the leader period. They listen to me or I bust their butts. The way I have done things in the past has worked for me, I have read Ed's stuff about pack structure, I have questions, but that doesnt mean that thats the way I do it. Not everyones lifestyle or situation is the same as there has to be adjustments for what works for each person. like I said in over 35yrs I have never had to take human or animal to the vet because of a fight. That cant all be just luck. I have also raised a mountain lion and a baboon for a childrens zoo with no issues. Not at the same time though.

Are the older dogs the same dogs from this post?

http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=134&Number=260665&Searchpage=5&Main=24972&Words=Debbie+Dibble&topic=0&Search=true#Post260665

If so, my first question would be, what has changed with this situation?

Have all of the dogs been adjusted into a pack, or are you seperating? Do the posturing, growling, charging behaviors still exist when they are together?

I did let my pup have limited free time with my adult dogs but I, again I, managed her. I did not allow her to annoy the other dogs and because of that they did not have to correct her. Even now, at 10 months, she only does our hikes with my other dogs. Other than that she only spends time with me and my "human" family. HOWEVER, I do not have pack structure issues with my dogs and I can bring any dog into my home (space) with no aggression from my dogs, so I knew that the same would apply with my new puppy.

If the pack structure issues are still something you are working on, I would not introduce the pup until you have completely 100% resolved them. Everything takes time, so it could be years until the new pup is around the other dogs with none of them in a command - it also could be never as mentioned in a previous post.

the idea of introducing the puppy is gone that, I didnt think about the puppy being a nuisince to the adult dog. The only time I can see a issue is when the 1 male trys to hump on the other male or female, they dont like it. There crates are next to each other and there is never any issues with any of them, they all pass by each others crates without any aggression. Its funny cause every nite before Ike goes to bed he makes rounds and checks on the other dogs and then he lays down for the nite. I rotate them who get lets out in the house at night and the others are fine with that. I dont expect them to be buddies, I do expect them to mind me. I wont put 2 dogs together that dont like each other unattended.I think ya have a gut instinct if they will jump into a fight. I think if there ever was one too start it would be more like alot of noise and minor scrapping.

 Quote: debbie dibble

I know alot of people on here think you should keep dogs separated because they will get more attached to the other dog rather than the person.

This was not what anyone said about your O.P. at all. What they said was:

"If you really don't know what you are doing & how to control things it would be best to keep all the dogs seperated. If you have 2 dogs that you think will fight, why take the chance...keep them seperated."

"I would not expect dogs that don't really get along, to get along if by accident they should find themselves together, most especially in your absence."

"I agree that same sex, or dog aggressive dogs, need complete separation."

"There are dogs that no mater how much you want them to get along, they NEVER will. Seperation practices are something that dog owners have to accept in living with multiple dogs that do not get along."

"If the pack structure issues are still something you are working on, I would not introduce the pup until you have completely 100% resolved them."

 Quote: debbie dibble

I want the male to be around the mother .... but I am leary of this .... I'm afraid a fight will start.

 Quote: debbie dibble

The adult dogs know fighting is not permitted and they do respect me.

 Quote: debbie dibble

It is not that I dont know about pack structure, it is that I don't agree with everything that is said here. I have had gsd, dobs, rotts,over the last 35yrs ....

Early THIS YEAR:

 Quote: debbie dibble

I think I need to read on normal pack behavior because I'm not quite understanding their relationship with each other. I think they all know I'm the alpha but I can let the 2 females outside together their good, I an let the 2 yearold male out with either female and he's a little rough with both of them.like he's trying to be 2 in line. But inside the 2 females get more dominate with each other. And outside if all 3 are out they start getting alittle pushy with each other. Is it a territorial issue? Each feel protective of different parts of their home? And do I let them work it out themselves to a certain point.

You can see that you yourself have made it clear that pack structure is hazy for you -- not just in the descriptions in posts, but by your own words.

It's hazy for a lot of people. It would be really beneficial if you read the replies without defensiveness.

I was being blunt in my earlier post, but it was because of all the info in all your threads, and not because I just felt like saying "you know little about pack structure."

TRULY, you are getting good answers, and they are geared towards the well-being of the dogs. NO ONE is trying to offend you. I am definitely not, and I will try to phrase my words differently.


PS

"The only time I can see a issue is when the 1 male trys to hump on the other male or female, they dont like it." This is something that you as pack leader don't want to allow. Period, ever, IMO. It's letting the dog(s) decide on overt displays of dominance over each other.

" ... the idea of introducing the puppy is gone .... I wont put 2 dogs together that dont like each other unattended." Excellent!

Them were different dogs, I have a different male now, the female I had had cancer and had to be put down the other female was 10 moa ols at the time and is now 2 I have worked with her for a long time she has dramatically mellowed in areas she was suppose to. You need to understand I live alone and all my time outside of work is with my dogs, they are not out in kennels and left unsocialized. I have also took the female to training class by a very well known trainer that has trained for about 30 years, And the 1 male that I have has since been certified in obedience, tracking and bite work. I have the feeling you take me as a idiot some times, and although I may have a problem with communication, I have common sense. Thanks

It doesn't matter if they are different dogs. Not the point at all.

I think my communication M.O. is the problem.

Wouldn't be the first time!




Edited by Connie Sutherland (11/24/2010 08:58 PM)
Edit reason: edit/add

p.s I dont permit the 1 male to hump on the others, I put a immediate stop to it. This male I have only had about 4 months. He was left unsocialized in a kennel for a long time he has issues but I am working hard on them and hes came a long way. I guess one of my soft spots are for the unforutnate dogs that have been tossed around, I find once you give them want they have needed from the start love, structure, and time they can turn out to be some of the best dogs. Not all of them can turn around but I try. These dogs have great pedigrees but came from scumbag breeders and kennels that care about nothing but money. All I have done is put money into them, I had 3 of them to the vet today, and she complements me on the job I have done with them, she has seen them from the start. I may not do everything right but I have a hugh compassion for want I do do.

I dont permit the 1 male to hump on the others, I put a immediate stop to it.

Good. :-)



I have a hugh compassion for want I do do.

I know you do.