Tammy I agree with your analogy that the 8.5 h/d bitch is not a challenge the lines already drawn in the sand. If you throw a ball and the 8.5 gets it will the 1.5 yr old take the ball and bring it back to you? Test for who might be alpha.

Reinier, I'm sorry, I didn't see your post until today.
To answer your questions:

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Originally posted by REINIER Geel:

2. Has the dog been severely corrected in the presence of the other in their den – Home, yard etc? If yes then the dog sees the other as aggressor and competition.

No.

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3. Do you treat them as equal? If yes -Misguided pack status – the one dog is tops the one day the next day its not this confuses the dogs and brings about anxiety

Nope.

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4. Do they jump on you when you get home or do they chew up the yard while you are away? Signs of some Affection competition or separation anxiety

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Nope.

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5. – Do you correct and interfere with all fights
The dog must behave the way I want – owners want dogs to behave like humans

I stop fights. When the older bitch and the male fight, this is easily done verbally ("Hey, knock it off!!!!"). When the two bitches fight, nothing stops it short of pulling them apart physically.

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6. Does the dogs get out much? No social interaction with other dogs breed more frustration

The older one does not get out as much, but she spends a lot of time with the male Lab. She is a house dog. She gets walked in the neighborhood, and occasionally gets to run off leash in the woods. The younger one gets out regularly, as she is a working dog. She goes to obedience classes, goes for daily 5 mile bike rides, and SAR training 3X per week.

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7. Feeding habits, do you feed and go? does the dogs have food at their disposal 24 –7?, not good

No free feeding. They are fed Canidae twice daily. They are fed in their crates, then are let out separately to potty.

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8. Or have you checked breed for -Genetic imprinted aggression, true to breed character

They are both mixed breeds. The older one is a BC/Heeler type, and the younger one is a BC/Lab (?).

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9. Have you shouted and screamed at the dogs when you caught them fighting? – Enforcement of negative behaviour with positive stimulus

The first couple of fights, yes, I did shout at them trying to get them to stop. When that was ineffective, I separated them physically. The last fight, I didn't bother yelling, just separated them. They haven't fought for three months, due to being kept physically separated.

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Lisa & Lucy, CGC, Wilderness Airscent

Western Oregon Search Dogs

Hi Lisa

Now there are animal behavior experts on the board, whom do this type of thing for a living, so I can only better guess what the problem is with out being able to see it first hand.

Some other factors to take into account, Sprayed bitches tend to become more masculine and more aggressive with age, less tolerant of young dogs that want to play, Incompatibility with the same sex is a well known the ratio is 80/20,with female to female taking the cup, puppy kinder gardens class was originally designed with this in mind and dog on dog socialisation, Studies have shown that Seasonal cases of fighting between female dogs within the home, show the highest incident in spring followed by winter time, and during - breeding time between bitches.

In your case, I would think the two attributes that would weigh heavy will be the fact that one, they are cross bread, two the younger one gets more attention by virtue of being trained and therefore covered in your sent when returning home, this is a common cause for jealousy. Three the crating of the dogs –separation – we see a lot more of dog on dog aggression with dogs being separated and standing on kennel alone vs. the dogs in the puppy runs that seldom fight.

I think gender and age are the two biggest contributors, along with breed predisposition and temperament.
I think of different breeds/different dogs as having different levels of personal space requirements. My 7yo BCX has a huge space bubble. If she can see it, it's in her space. My 1yo BCX has a medium to smaller space bubble. She's very alert and aware of her surroundings, but not as reactive to things until they come closer to her. When she's interested in something, she gets very close, basically In-Your-Face. My Lab has practically no space bubble at all. He's very tolerant of other dogs and people very close to him, with the exception of strangers entering the property. So you can see how the combination of an older spayed female with a huge space bubble, and a young, energetic, In-Your-Face pest, and both being of a breed that has a need to control space (Border Collie), can create conflict.

What's interesting, is that the 7yo seems happy to be put on her tiedown. It's like I'm taking away the responsibility of handling the younger dog, and she genuinely seems relieved.

Lisa, My too went at it again Thursday night. This is the first time either have growled or barked at each other since the fight in th ekitchen.( that's when the male GSD nailed me in the arm)

Something that I've noticed is that our female Akita does not tolorate any type of aggression from any dog. She was tolorante of the older GSD until they mixed it up the last time. She has also been spayed since then. I have seen a differeance in her attitude recently.

Both of these dogs were raised in the house together. The older GSD is less tolorante when I've noticed him favoring his bad hip.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The female Akita is crated after she eats in the house, the other night they were both acting as if they wanted to kill each other through the crate. Gsd was onb the outside. This time verbal commands would not work. Finnaly got them to quit down. Took about -5- minutes it seemed but my wife said only about a minute.

If the Male GSD would have even turned in my direction and growled he would be history.

10 minutes later they were nose to nose through the wire of their crate like best of buddies.

These two along with my young female GSD are all kenneled outside next to each other and you never hear them. No aggression to each other whatso ever.

As for quality time both the Akita and the male GSD get more then adequate time with both of us.

So in closing this way to long post:
You like us are in a similar situtation, the attachment to the dogs is very much cemented to our lives, we deal with this as a parent would with sibblings that fight each other.

I just hate to keep them seperated as I know they enjoy each others company until what ever ticks them off.

Lisa, you and I are not the only k-9 owners that deal with this every day. There could proberly be a discussion kept open on this subject alone.

Good luck, thanks for the info you sent. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yep, as long as one has multiple dogs, aggression is an issue that one will have to deal with. At least yours enjoy each others' company. Not sure I can say the same with my bitches. But they seem perfectly happy being kept separate. I think it relieves a lot of their stress.