George Tate wrote 12/25/2010 11:42 AM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #308741 - 12/25/2010 11:42 AM
George Tate Webboard User Reg: 09-07-2010 Posts: 68 Loc: Houston, TX Offline	Thanks to all for the information and links. We start today - again on focus. I need training on focus! ;-) "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein Ribbit, Cabbage, Cactus, Molly George "jorge" Tate
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George Tate wrote 12/28/2010 06:22 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Lynne Barrows ] #308996 - 12/28/2010 06:22 PM
George Tate Webboard User Reg: 09-07-2010 Posts: 68 Loc: Houston, TX Offline	I've been working on WATCH ME since you suggested the way to do it. It's great...all five have it down pretty well. You said to phase out the marker/reward asap. I think I'm ready to phase it out. How do you transition to the verbal command? As soon as the dog looks in your eyes, do you just say, "Watch me!" ...but with no reward/treat/marker? thanks! "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein Ribbit, Cabbage, Cactus, Molly George "jorge" Tate
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Barbara Schuler wrote 12/28/2010 06:41 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: George Tate ] #308998 - 12/28/2010 06:41 PM
Barbara Schuler Webboard User Reg: 01-15-2009 Posts: 5090 Loc: Lanexa Virginia Offline	George, Have all five dogs been introduced to distractions in this behavior yet? Others may disagree, but my understanding of marker training is that you introduce the "command" once you get the behavior on a pretty reliable basis, and then begin on adding distractions, then more distractions. I'm not sure what the rush is to drop the reward after only two days of training this behavior - can you help me out on that? (I'll reread the post to see what I may have missed as well.)
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/28/2010 07:03 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: George Tate ] #309002 - 12/28/2010 07:03 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: george tate I've been working on WATCH ME since you suggested the way to do it. It's great...all five have it down pretty well. You said to phase out the marker/reward asap. I think I'm ready to phase it out. How do you transition to the verbal command? As soon as the dog looks in your eyes, do you just say, "Watch me!" ...but with no reward/treat/marker? thanks! No no. I think you are maybe mixing up fading the lure (if you used one) with phasing out the marker/reward. I don't want to pile on confusion, so let me ask you: did you use a lure? Did you make a sound or perhaps put the reward up between your eyes to trigger the first look into your eyes? This is what you fade as soon as you can. Nothing at all to do with starting a variable reinforcement schedule (changing from continuous mark/reward to slightly less frequent, etc.). It's not time for thinking about variable reinforcement. You have not even added the command. .... never mind proofed against changes in venue and against distraction.
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Barbara Schuler wrote 12/28/2010 07:03 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Bob Scott ] #309003 - 12/28/2010 07:03 PM
Barbara Schuler Webboard User Reg: 01-15-2009 Posts: 5090 Loc: Lanexa Virginia Offline	George, just to reiterate what Bob Scott said...  Quote: bob scott kadi's article is solid! One simple but soooo important bit of wording in her article is; "Once the dog is solid on this," Sounds so very simple but to many rush ahead as soon as the see any response at all to the training. DON'T go forward until the dog understands the basic of the exercise. If you do you contaminate all of it! Break down each behavior as small as possible. later htey will go together so much easier...and correctly!
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/28/2010 07:16 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Barbara Schuler ] #309005 - 12/28/2010 07:16 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: barbara schuler I'm not sure what the rush is to drop the reward after only two days I think "fade the lure asap" was misconstrued.
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Barbara Schuler wrote 12/28/2010 07:22 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #309006 - 12/28/2010 07:22 PM
Barbara Schuler Webboard User Reg: 01-15-2009 Posts: 5090 Loc: Lanexa Virginia Offline	Quote: connie sutherland  Quote: barbara schuler I'm not sure what the rush is to drop the reward after only two days I think "fade the lure asap" was misconstrued. Damn, you're good.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 12/28/2010 07:33 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Barbara Schuler ] #309008 - 12/28/2010 07:33 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: barbara schuler George, just to reiterate what Bob Scott said...  Quote: bob scott kadi's article is solid! One simple but soooo important bit of wording in her article is; "Once the dog is solid on this," Sounds so very simple but to many rush ahead as soon as the see any response at all to the training. DON'T go forward until the dog understands the basic of the exercise. If you do you contaminate all of it! Break down each behavior as small as possible. later htey will go together so much easier...and correctly! Bob's comment should be a billboard. :-) Many of his comments should. Of course, he has been working with dogs since pre-Stonehenge, so ......
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George Tate wrote 12/29/2010 11:52 AM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #309112 - 12/29/2010 11:52 AM
George Tate Webboard User Reg: 09-07-2010 Posts: 68 Loc: Houston, TX Offline	Ok.....this is what I read that got me off track: "Lynne Barrows: If for some reason he won't look in your eyes, you can lure him by making a chirping sound. When he looks at you, mark and reward. You want to phase this out very quickly though..." I have not needed to use a lure or make a sound. None of my dogs have had any trouble making eye contact. I'm proud of them. Very light distractions at this time . . . a couple of them are look me in the eye on command generally. It's not reliable, though. So...no rush. Thanks for all the clarification! "Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein Ribbit, Cabbage, Cactus, Molly George "jorge" Tate
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Bob Scott wrote 12/29/2010 10:31 PM Re: Watch me command help [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #309244 - 12/29/2010 10:31 PM
Bob Scott Moderator Reg: 06-14-2002 Posts: 7417 Loc: St. Louis Mo Offline	If only I would learn to practice what I preach. Those big stones did a great job of reflecting the heat from our camp fires. We could also tell what time of year it was with the way the sun shine came through...then some clown invented the calendar. Another invented the match. What can I say?!! old dogs LOVE to learn new tricks
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