Quote: anne jones

From you post...it sounds like your dog was 'resource guarding' not being protective or dog aggressive.

You don't EVER work a mentally imature dog or puppy in defense. NOT EVER.

In resource guarding, wouldn't he act the same way with his food, and toys?

Also, i know not to "work" the dog in defense as you dont want an overly defensive dog. it was just his natural reaction, i wasnt expecting it before and dont really know what to make of it. I want the pup socialized with other animals regardless of whether we try to make him a sport dog, or just a pet. so...what should i do? just not let my other dog be around the pup? or put the pup in his kennel while im with nitro?

 Quote: anne jones

Many of the sport dogs are social to varing degrees. Some may be aloof, but that is not the same as anti-social. TRUE PPDs, (now I'm talking the lethal dogs that 99.9% of the population can't own & don't need to own & don't want the liability incurred in ownership)are not social dogs. There are a few out there that posess a degree of socialibility...but they are VERY far & few. A good friend of mine had one.

also, Off topic, but, im curious to this statement. What do you mean "true PPD" if you know your dog will take a bullet trying to defend you, doesn't that make him a "true ppd?" in my opinion anyone can own a properly trained and socialized ppd. Im not talking about an attack dog, that just kills because that's all its ever been taught to do. who needs one of those anyways? i'm talking about dogs that do what you tell them to when you tell them to do it, and you can control the switch. Now yes, i have seen several dogs that were high drive police service dogs that got out of control due to weak handlers and became aggressive and unmanageable, And yes, this could happen with a PPD as well...But with the proper handler traning..couldnt anyone own a ppd? isnt that what the point of all these PPD companies is? i mean look at CPI and Ulimate k9...yes there dogs i think are over priced, but i have personally seen them and i wouldnt hesitate to own one of their dogs, or recommend them to my 80 year old grandmother. Im sure some of the people that have bought them had their concerns....anyways.... just MY 2 cents, not trying to argue or what not, just curious as to what your line of thinking is, and how it differs from mine. basically what it boils down to is a believe a PPD should be a sociable controllable animal.

By nature, the temperament that lends itself to legit Personal Protection work, is not the temperament of a social, friendly dog.

Controllable? Sure. Social? No.

Will....where are you? Would you post to this thread.

James, REAL PPDs are NOT SOCIAL dogs. Controllable in the proper handlers hands,yes. There is maybe a very few of them out there, but Will can tell you that in all his years of PPD training, the vast majority are not. Hard to believe that those 'sucker born a minute' personal protection dealers like CPI that you mentioned manages to find SO MANY. It's a joke. I would not in a million years expect one of these dogs to protect me from a very real threat. I would be carring a gun as back up for the dog. These companies, prey on the unknowledgable general public to 'unload' their dogs for BIG bucks. Why do people think that the more you pay for something the better that it is?

As I stated in another thred...there are 2 guys in my state that do the same thing as CPI. It is fraud. I have seen a number of their dogs...what a joke. But the general public believes! Like PT said:..."a fool an his money are soon parted.

People that really have the need for a REAL PPD have to be willing to live a certain way with those dogs. They are not the social butterfly at the party, playing quietly with the kids. I believe Will stated that he has only seen a few in his career that were somewhat social. One of which my friend had. And Will personally knows the dog.

well ok then... i guess i have my expectations set in the wrong area. I guess i need to find some of these "real" ppd trainers and observe their dogs and how that act on a daily basis. I guess ive been watching, reading, learning from the wrong crowd if thats the case.

 Quote: James Biggs

I guess ive been watching, reading, learning from the wrong crowd if thats the case.

Are you watching, reading, and learning from the folks who are trying to help you in this thread?

I recommend it.

I dunno Anne, I've seen patrol dogs, area protection dogs, etc as you discribed and I've also seen some serious dogs that turn into teddy bears when told to "turn off". It's a matter of degrees I guess, like the difference between firearms, a 38 would most people fine for home defense or carry in most areas while a M16 would be more suitable in others.

well i am now... regardless, though i still want a GSD PPD.. I have a need for it, and I have the willingness to live as nessecary with it..

..now, back to this puppy..perhaps i should of realized i posted in the PPD section LOL..BUT..how am i gonna decided whether this pup is meant for bite work? whether schutzhund or other sports or whatever. Id hate to start him down the wrong path only to realize its not cut out for him. I have no local trainers to take him to..closest club is over 2 hours away..soooo...any ideas or advice?

He doesn't need to resource guard his food & toys with you to be resource guarding your from another dog or even a stranger.

Hell, I had a mini poodle that put on the biggest show (resource guarding me) when repairman came to my house. It was like she drew an invisable line & she made sure that they NEVER crossed it. They could walk thru the house to do their repairs, but she would nip at them it they came too close to me. Back them (about 30 years ago) I thought that she was being protective of me. It wasn't until a couple of years later that I learned that it was resource guarding not protection she was doing.

I personally don't let pups play with adults. They may spend some brief time together, well supervised by me..but that is all. I want pups to learn that I am the one that the sun rises & sets on...not another dog. But that is just the way that I do it. Consequently, my dogs have limited interest in each other & basically are only interested in me. I'm the one that brings all the fun & good things. They don't even care if they are sitting there with balls in their mouths...I am the one that makes the 'fun'.

You cannot train your own PPD.

Period.

If you're serious, you're going to have to find experienced, knowledgeable people to train with. It isn't possible to do it on your own.