Are you doing the stand from a sit, Katie?

When I trained Toni, I did it from a sit. I took the treat clenched tightly in a fist, pushed it toward her chest and took a step forward. Her nose came down to follow the food and as her nose neared her chest, her butt came up, and I had a stand. The first few times the treat was closer to her abdomen than her chest, but it got her to stand. After like 5 times, her butt came up before the treat even got to her chest.

I don't think I explained this too well. Toni never got a chance to chew on my hand because as I stepped forward into her, my hand with the treat went between her front legs towards her belly. She couldn't chew on my hand until she stood up. At most, she could nose my elbow Treat placement at first was literally at her belly with my arm between her front legs.

Yep, doesn't work. I've tried it from a sit and a down. She won't budge.

We're Schutzhunding it tonight, so we'll see what I can manage there!

Thanks so much again everyone!

Good luck, Katie!! Once you get the light to go on you won't be able to stop her. I told Paul to stand up so I could get by him once and Toni who was laying a few feet away jumped into a stand

 Quote: Katie Finlay

Yep, doesn't work. I've tried it from a sit and a down. She won't budge.

I'm kind of in the same place with Koenig. He's a brilliant dog, so I know it's something I'm doing. Delivery, Placement... it's me. I make a short (terribly embarrassing) video, and sent it to someone on here. (you know who you are!!! ) She pointed out that it looked like Koenig didn't realize he could move his butt. I had a serious case of gumby dog, he'd bend every which way, but wouldn't pop his butt out.

We worked more on his 'back' command. I can't promise it'll work, but it really sounded like a brilliant idea to me. It's not really a natural move for a dog, (a stand, w/o moving the front feet) IMO, so it takes a bit of finesse. Danni is young, and goofy (I'm assuming a lot like Koenig!).

You could always make a video and sent it to a couple of the pro's on here, if you don't want to post it for all of Leerburg to watch. The things my buddy pointed out were excellent reminders for me.

Kelly,

What about having him put his front paws on a secure box/something and get him to move his butt/back legs around - keeping the front legs on the box? I saw this recently and am trying to remember where... as an exercise to help make the dog more aware of his back end. I'll try and find that video/info.

He'll 'touch', and he seems to move his bum just fine when he wants to.... LOL. I'm also going to try Kelly's suggestion, and place my treat even lower. I've tried it at his chest... I'll try it at his belly! (I betcha' he'll just bed in half, and then opt to fall over onto the floor and thump his tail at me. 'Is this what you wanted, Mom?' )

I loop a leash under the dog's belly and pull up on both ends of the leash with gentle pressure if the dog is having trouble understanding what I want. I immediately mark and reward the stand, and then fade the leash pressure.

Katie,

My 3 1/2 month old puppy is doing a reliable stand. I trained him to do it on a box to minimize his options. Now he will do it any where.

We started from a sitting position. Prior to this I taught him to take the treat from my closed fist, I first presented the back of my hand and he was rewarded when I turned my hand around and opened my fist. Biting got him nothing, I know it hurts. When he is sitting on the box, I put my hand with the treat (back of fist facing him) a little in front of his nose (let him smell it) and move it away from him. As he follows it, I turn my hand side ways (thumb toward him) so that when he stands he can reach the treat as I open the palm of my hand. Sometimes, I will use a long thin treat (like a thin strip of cheese or meat) to extent the length of the reward period and pet him under the belly to reduce the tendency to return to a sitting position.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but it works for me.

 Quote: Mary K.Pope

Katie,

We started from a sitting position. Prior to this I taught him to take the treat from my closed fist, I first presented the back of my hand and he was rewarded when I turned my hand around and opened my fist. Biting got him nothing, I know it hurts. When he is sitting on the box, I put my hand with the treat (back of fist facing him) a little in front of his nose (let him smell it) and move it away from him. As he follows it, I turn my hand side ways (thumb toward him) so that when he stands he can reach the treat as I open the palm of my hand.
I don't know if this makes any sense, but it works for me.

I have a high food drive beast. Taking treats without removing fingers was what took the longest to teach, he still needs a refresher course here and there. We did the stand, I didn't use the box, but put my fist as Mary explained, in line with his nose and pulled it back toward me. Same for the down only as I pulled my hand toward me, I moved it up. He caught on quickly once he was calmer about getting the treat.

I teach the stand "hands off". How, depends on the size of the dog.

If it's a small pup, I am probably still luring the pup into the sit/stand/down. To do the stand I will be a little off to one side of the pup. Lure it into a sit or down. Then holding the food just in front of it's nose, I pull forward (forward from the pups point of view, not mine) just enough to get them shifting their weight forward and up. As soon as their rear end (whether in sit or down) starts to come up, I move the food down and back in towards the pup. This kind of pulls their weight forward so they are coming into the stand, but moving the food down and back in towards the pup stops any forward movement (down makes them arch their back so they keep the stand movement going) so they don't walk into the stand but instead just move their rear end to get there. Takes a little practice, but works well. If the pup does walk into the stand anyway, then I will make them back up a couple steps (just using the lure but pushing it into them) before I reward them. As a side note, understanding how to back up following a lure is something I teach at the same time as the positions, so if I move the lure into them they know to backup to get it.

If the dog/pup is bigger, say 6 month size to adult, I have the dog come sit in front of me, then holding a piece of food in my hand as far down as I can without bending over, I walk into the dog. There natural reaction to me walking into them is usually to jump up and back. If they don't jump up and back, I keep walking in to them until they fall over backwards. Usually doing this just a few times will make them realize they need to get up and get out of my way. The food being low keeps their head low, which makes it easier for them to move their rear end. This teaches them to move their rear to get into the stand, instead of their front feet. And if there is any movement into the stand of the front, it's backwards movement. At first I need to apply a fair amount of "presence" pressure (solid step into the dog) to get the dog to stand up, sometimes they even fall over themselves instead LOL But they figure it out. Once they have the idea, the pressure just becomes a little movement of the knee instead of a full step into them. And then it just becomes the verbal command. Once they have that, then I can start to put a little space between us, and a little lean or knee movement is usually enough to remind them to pop backwards into the stand instead of stepping fowards.

For Ringsport if they are having issues standing when I'm at a distance I will use a belly collar/line to add a physical correction, so they know it's not optional, but usually my dogs think positions are fun and I have more problems with them popping up into a stand when I don't want it, then them not taking the stand when I do.

For Schutzhund (motion exercises) or Ring (the beginning of the change of positions) once I have them taking the stand reliably with them in front of me, I will start to work it next to me in heel position. First I just work on them walking backwards next to me, using a combination of lures and leash pressure. This is actually something I teach during the heeling phase of training. But once they understand how to walk backwards in a heel, and they know how to take a stand position standing in front of me, pairing the two is pretty easy. With them in heel positoin I just tell them to stand, and take one small step backwards, they will pop up thinking heeling, while I remind them to stand and stop. If they sit, I will loop a leash around their waste so I can give a little upward pressure and remind them to stand. Fade the step back as soon as possible, and just use a little straight back leash pressure on the collar if needed when giving the stand. If that isn't working, go back to having the dog in front and do a few stands. Then put the dog at a slight angle (you are heading towards heel) and do some stands. Don't have them move until they are solid at each location, but slowly just have them turn around you until they are finally in heel position.

For the food issue, go get a pair of heavy gloves. If your dog isn't getting a reaction from you, they will figure out they have to give the behavior to get the food, and not just chew on ou until they make you give it because it's hurting or drawing blood. Or depending on the dog you can correct for the chewing on your hand, verbally or physical, depends on your dog.