"my first tattoo which reads "I helped Connie Sutherland on 12/16/11". With a pug's face.

Think Doug will find this sexy in any way???"

I'd check before putting any money into it.

Can you gradually extend the ye ye ye's?
Like... instead of "ye.ye.ye.ye" say "ye..ye..ye..ye..ye" and so forth?

Something else I've noticed... is that even when we're super conscious of our body language, dogs read lips. If spacing the IB out doesn't work... could you literally make it quieter and quieter, until you're essentially just mouthing the word, followed by a comparatively louder TB?

Aaron, Could this make the dog rely more and more on something verbal/visual to maintain the command - rather than losing the IB and just maintaining the down?

Edited by Barbara Schuler (01/16/2011 11:34 PM)
Edit reason: rewording

 Quote: aaron myracle

Can you gradually extend the ye ye ye's?
Like... instead of "ye.ye.ye.ye" say "ye..ye..ye..ye..ye" and so forth?

I think this is good. I understand what Barbara means about making him even more reliant on a maintenance thing, but I think this will work. The ye ye ye will get wider apart and softer and the TB more pronounced.

Yeah.

That resonates.

It's not like the ye ye ye is an IB we rely on elsewhere (ever!). I want it to go away. LOL Like fading a lure.



OK. Gonna do this, both parts.

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

Aaron, Could this make the dog rely more and more on something verbal/visual to maintain the command - rather than losing the IB and just maintaining the down?

I'm hedging my bets on subtlety being easier to fade out.
Ultimately, if it works, it's because the dog already *is* dependent on the physical cue.

 Quote: Aaron Myracle

I'm hedging my bets on subtlety being easier to fade out.

That makes sense... when I first read it I was thinking we were simply going from one cue to another cue, but I see how the subtlety could be much easier to fade.

So, you gonna get a tat for being the one to help Connie? Pug face and all?

Ooooh, tempting.

Very tempting.

I KNEW you were one of the few folks who would say that...

Instead of a bridge the dog has, for some reason, learned to use the end of the ye, ye, ye, ye, as a release instead. You may also be unknowingly putting some body language in the bridge when you stop.
After a few Ye, ye, ye, start slowing them down and saying them calmer. Break up how you use you bridge. He's starting to anticipate it as a release instead of a bridge. Use it as a distraction at the same time.
As other's have stated, a simple "nope" to stop the dog from breaking the down and start over.
My GSD Trooper is super excitable. Using anything for a bridge, other then a calm, quiet, sloooow "Gooood" and he'll pop up and start boogying around the yard. He's to handler sensitive for me to do any more then stay calm and start over. Not my strong feature. LOL!

 Quote: connie sutherland

I'm reluctant to use nope here. He knows nope, and I do use it with new commands that he's just learning, and he accepts it as part of the routine of learning a command, but this guy when he came a few years ago was so sensitive and worried and anxious about any kind of training (or touching, or looking at ....). I don't think beaten or abused or anything like that, but anxious all the time. And now he's not. I hesitate to use nope when he is proud and pleased and does his doggy-pushups with his eager smile, and he "thinks" he is doing it right because of my mistake.

Just one more thought (long and drawn out at that). I see what you’re saying here and why you don’t want to introduce the negative yet. I agree.

Vince has a super sensitive temperament as well, plus I live with a couple of aloof Inuits. All super trainable but I’m all over the map with different techniques for each of them. Traditional marker methods with slightly different tweaks initially. When I’m having problems getting the behavior to reward, I always go back to free-shaping. It’s fun, non-frustrating and treats drop from the sky when they least expect it. But it does mark the moment in time with the “Yes”.

I’m sure Leo has down time, where he’s just laying around for more than a few seconds, maybe when he’s super tired. I’d get down on the floor with him (or in the bed, wherever he relaxes) when he’s in a proper down position, just say “Yes” and pop him a treat. Give him the bridge while he’s still down, Goooood, Gooood, or Ye Ye Ye (you’ll get the twisted little face - you’re crazy mom…but cool) then pop him another treat. He’s down and he’s getting rewarded for it. It’s not a formal training session so you can afford to have him pop up or roll over or whatever he chooses to do, but the minute he goes back down for more than a second, “Yes” and pop him another treat.

As you know, the long down is quite a submissive position and for your more anxious/sensitive dogs can be quite unsettling at first. When they realize that good things happen in that position, it starts to take on a more relaxed feeling.

Of course, if all else fails, you could just strap a brick to his back… j/k of course.