Out of curiosity.....

What good is a dog that you can't take to a family gathering? Especially a pup at that age. Yes it will require some supervision, but if the dog can't be trusted COMPLETELY around people then the only option with it is isolation until it is undercontrol and that isn't going to help. There are going to be circumstances that require some additional supervision, and if the owner can't provide that supervision they need a different dog, but at that age the puppy should be able to sit quietly around that many people and interact socially in small numbers.

Again we are talking about poor socialization of the dog.

In addition, what is the training schedule OUTSIDE of class for this dog. You are never going to get the dog completed in training only working in class once or twice a week.

Michael Taylor
I was generalizing about the junkyard dog. I definately don't know enough about lines to say anything about paticular lines. I do think there are some issues with inexperience here. Sorry if I confused anyone. I'm often confused by my own writing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Richard
As I said on another post, "without stability, everything else is a pain in the ass".

Richard,Richard Richard...........I should have placed some money down that you would reply right after me! :rolleyes:

Enough of that. What good is a dog if it cannot be taken to family gatherinings? The dog seems to be ok with everyone most of the time. I am not inclined to let my dogs roam free around everyone. I do not think that these people have this dog on a leash at all times and are capable of instructing the rest of the gang how to act around this dog. They themselves cannot really handle this dog without guidance. Why push it? To prove that you have a dog that can roam around everyone in a room? What purpose does that serve with this animal? A dog bite maybe? Do you follow? For a family pet, maybe, but these people are intrested in competing in schutzhund, they have a bit of a nerve issue with this dog, so what purpose will be served by having this dog in a family gathering type situation at this time, other then to cause more problems for the dog. I think that this is a no-brainer. :rolleyes: While I agree that if this is what these people require then they should get another dog. I know you like your dogs to go everywhere and things of the like; this may not be the cae with these people.

As far as what this dog does otherwise, I am not writting a training program for these people, just sharing some information to help them form one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Michael,

Maybe because I disagree with 80% of what you say?

You got to make up your mind here:

I would keep working this dog, having the owner back-tie the dog, maybe with another dog and use a big tug on a long rope, to keep the drive going for the prey item, in a protection type situation, but by having the handler work the dog, it will be all prey work, and really just drive building.

to:

I would also stop training with the formal routine for now. I would work this dog for about a month of so, with just the owner and the dog on the field. After time when the dog is heeling good, start adding distractions and correcting the dog for failing to keep attention on the exersise.

From:

A dog from working lines is not always the best choice to have around a family gathering. To me this is asking for a probelm. The dog may not be the problem, but the lifestyle of the owners.

to:

I do not think that these people have this dog on a leash at all times and are capable of instructing the rest of the gang how to act around this dog. They themselves cannot really handle this dog without guidance. Why push it? To prove that you have a dog that can roam around everyone in a room? What purpose does that serve with this animal? A dog bite maybe?

So which is it continue to work the dog in protection or stop?... You can't take a working line dog to a family gathering (or just this working line dog) or you can do it just on leash? Your own point with this dog is that it needs socialization, isn't that done around people?

And who said any thing about having the dog off lead?

This is a dog that just doesn't get it yet. It isn't going to get it until it has a firm frame of reference. These people want the dog to be social and able to interact with people at the family gathering...why else take it? If they wanted a SchH only dog, it would have been home in a kennel. The goal is to get this dog functional the way the people want the dog, it isn't going to be that hard, if it is done properly. But why continue with bite work with a dog that is improperly biting? What do you figure will happen with this dog under the current training program?

I never advocate throwing the dog out to start over. To me the purchase of a dog is a life time commitment to that animal. Fix the problem in the context of what the dog is doing.

I think we are getting into apples and oranges here.
Some people want a dog purely for sport,PPD,etc. Others want a dog to function differently in public. Neither is wrong if you have what you want and accept the responsibilites that go along with each case.

Richard your are very anal retentive.

If you are trying to say that I am changing my mind, I clearley do not see it. As the norm with you, you twist my words.

If you had a clear understanding of sport protection work, and that seems to be the goal for this dog, then you would grasp the concept of back-tieing the dog and building drive for the TUG. Not the man. There is a diffrence if you don't know.

I am not as you try to do, write a training program for these people, just passing some idea's around. They can take it or leave it, it is not that important to me.

Anyone that thinks that taking this dog to family gatherinings, to fix this problem, is asking for an accident. Common-sense would dictate that a crowed area with people that are not dog people is not the best place for this dog at this time. THis is the exact type of thinking that gets children bit. It baffles me that anyone that has been around dogs for a while would attemt this. You can try and shovel this to someone else, but it does not pass the smell test with me.

Mike and Richard,
I agree with alot of what you guy's are saying and some of what others said not knowing all the specifics of the K9 and the owners or the club there are alot of unknown factors to make a solid judgement. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
I have a 16 month GSD male who's future goal is working on the street with our team. I wrote posts here about him being sharp and aggressive at times with people and I took the advise of several people from this board and from ED, I stopped the bite work training for a long while, did tons of socialization EVERY Where! and did obedience, obstical courses, and long walks bonding. I had a complete turn around. I used Ed's tapes on building drive and several others he offers and I have a completely different dog.If you think that the training in your club is not what you want or like LEAVE! It's up to the owner not other people to make dissions for the owner or the dog. Screw politics! I hate them in clubs many good people leave the clubs because of bullshit, when all they wanted too do was train I am one of these people who has left. I love K9's and Training not politices it doesn't belong there!
I feel that this dog could be a real big liability if not checked real soon, from what I have read from other posts. Remember there are no bad dogs only bad owners.Tell the owner to wake up and decide what they want to do! This is only my view.

Lewis and Argo