Quote: Daniel Hieronymu

He has not associated my daughter with corrections. ....

Maybe not. I think It's better to assume that he has.

In fact, re-reading this, and not being able to come and see in person, I would recommend separation until you get a professional trainer's help.

It's not a "what collar" question.

 Quote: Daniel Hieronymu

I know I need to corect him when he does this, so what collar would be best to use?

It must seem like we are ignoring your request as to which collar, but this isn't going to be fixed by just changing to a different collar. We're not trying to be difficult...

 Quote: Barbara Schuler

... It must seem like we are ignoring your request as to which collar, but this isn't going to be fixed by just changing to a different collar. We're not trying to be difficult...

I was editing my post (above) to say this while you were typing.

I'll throw something out here since my other questions have not been answered.

What I would do with this dog is start from scratch again. Put him through the adult dog groundwork outlined here. Then start in with marker training and a good exercise routine.

Once he is solid on basic OB to you in a variety of situations, you can start adding your daughter back into the picture. But not for playtime. She can learn the new routine and rules and she can join in with you in the marker training. Start having her go through the commands that he knows and reward him for it. All supervised of course.

And it goes without saying that he is fed in a crate and she leaves him alone when he is in the crate.

I know it's not the answer you're looking for, but I would venture to guess that it just might help solve your issues better than a higher ecollar correction.

 Quote: Daniel Hieronymu

Here's how it usually goes: He growels at her I move towards him calmly and scold him in a firm voice. Meanwhile he usually shows his teeth and growels at me. He get's a shock and his head bows (no cry or yelp from him) and he allows me to move him to his crate.

I don't want you to think I'm cherry picking from your post, or picking on you, but what you are doing will make it worse. I really want you to get the help you need. Living with your dog dosent have to be like this.

Think of it this way : The dog growls at your daughter because he wants her to leave him alone. Then he growls at you, only giving you a more serious warning, because he now feels threatened. Then he is put in his crate and is left alone, which is what he wanted all along.

You just unintentionaly rewarded not only the first growl, but the snarl as well.

This isn't something I made up. I learned it here.

Good posts.

I too am not trying to refuse to give the answer the O.P. is asking for.


Thinking about this problem in terms of a high-level correction isn't addressing it at all, and in fact has almost certainly caused escalation.

I'm not picking on the O.P. either.

But it's very good when experienced people are answering a question to try to let go of preconceived notions and POVs and listen.

No one here wants this to end badly for the child or the anxious dog, but that's the way it's headed.

JMO.

PS
I hope and expect that this will NOT be a case of shopping for wanted answers. It's too serious for that.

I've already decided to do what Frawly's recomends. Most of what is being said is critical of how I handled the situation in the past. I'm aware it wasn't correct because I still have a dog problem and that's why I'm here. (White flag) Only Mara has given any actual advice on what to do. (Thanks Mara) (sorry ther were a few others too) That being said, I plan to follow what Frawley teaches exactly (including the groundwork). If you read Frawley's articals he says "you will have to correct your dog", and also says "a dog must always be corrected for aggressive behavior." How else would we ever get past this? I feel like soem of you are suggesting that he shouldn't be corrected when he acts out? Keeping him teathered to me for the rest of his life isn't an option. I simply want to know the best collar to work with a dog that has shown problems like this so I can provide the guidance he needs.
P.S. We went to a professional trainer last week and he got bit when he tried to control my dog. It was a joke and cost me $300. I've heard so much advise from "professionsals" (we've gone to 2 now) that has done absolutely zero for me that I'm very skeptical now. Frawley's methods are different from anything I've heard and I want to try them.

If you are going at this from the point of view that you are just going to correct this behaviour out of your dog, you are coming at the problem from the wrong angle imho. This approach is likely to get ugly at some point and destroy any relationship you have with your dog.

If you read through the site thoroughly, you will find that TRAINING always comes before CORRECTING.

There is much more to this story I suspect. Children need to learn how to be around dogs as much as dogs need to learn to be around children. A dog can't say "excuse me, I really would just like to be left alone now". All they have is a growl, which your dog gets corrected for. What does that leave the dog in terms of means of communication?

I agree that this is FAR from a "what collar?" question.

Hi Daniel,

No one on this board wants to disparage you or what you've done in the past. You wanted advice, it's been given. Please try to be a little more open-minded. Your dog and your child need your help.