Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#318907 - 02/26/2011 06:31 PM |
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This is a fantastic thread, with amazing insights!!
Frankly, for the situation that sparked this thread, the best possible resolution is that this dog gets rehomed before it ends up dead. It's one thing for the situation to arise (although, in all honesty, it represents a level of ignorance that I have a problem with). How it is being handled represents a whole new level of ignorance, one that involves much more "people training" than dog training.
We are talking a beagle here. A dog that is bred to be highly tolerant of the most busy and diverse pack situations. All I can think is "oh my gosh, that poor dog".
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. How a male Briard puppy I just bred ate dinner the first week in his new home...one which happens to have a 7 year old boy:
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/zotzybriards/jimmerandryan.jpg
http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/h336/zotzybriards/jimmerandryan2.jpg
NOT recommended to FIX the Beagle situation (in case the OP is reading this)!!!! I posted these for the benefit of those with young children planning the arrival of a puppy.
Fixing the original situation needs separation from all contact with children until a professional can get "eyes on", *in the home*. If the dog came from any kind of reputable breeder, s/he needs to be in the car this minute, on the way to pick that dog up and take it back!
Tracy
Tracy Roche
VA
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Mara Jessup ]
#318933 - 02/26/2011 08:24 PM |
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People don't have much patience IME once their children are bitten.
The man was searching for an answer, that's a sad thing, he was trying in his way to solve it.
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Betty Landercasp ]
#318935 - 02/26/2011 08:28 PM |
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I have learned a ton from you people about my "reactive" dog. We have really made progress.
I am very grateful for what I have learned.
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Betty Landercasp ]
#318936 - 02/26/2011 08:40 PM |
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People don't have much patience IME once their children are bitten.
That is very true. Kind of opposite to how I was brought up. Maybe it a farm/country mentality, but as kids we were always aware that a dog could bite or a cat could scratch. Especially if we were bugging it. If we got nipped by a dog, the first question would have been "what were you doing to the dog?"
Serious aggression would have never been tolerated in a dog of course, and they were expected to be pretty stable around the around the family but the attitude was very much you live and let live. Dog leaves you alone, you leave dog alone or face the consequences. My (childless) aunt had a dog that just didn't care for kids but we could go over to her house for a family birthday party and there would be 6 or 8 kids around and we all just left the dog alone. Once again, not an aggressive dog, but she sure could have been one if we as kids were allowed to torment her and she was expected to put up with it.
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Betty Landercasp ]
#318940 - 02/26/2011 08:58 PM |
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I have learned a ton from you people about my "reactive" dog. We have really made progress. I am very grateful for what I have learned.
You did it, Betty. You asked, and then you listened to and acted on the answers.
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Connie Sutherland ]
#318944 - 02/26/2011 09:27 PM |
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Lots of good info here... knowing you guys like I do, I realize what experience and knowledge is being so freely shared to keep a dog alive and a child safe.
What I'm hearing is that for someone who has limited experience with training dogs in general, and who has no experience in dealing with aggressive dogs, finding a qualified trainer to assist with this situation is a top priority (one would need to be careful in making sure the trainer is skilled with this type of situation.)
In addition, the dog and child should have no opportunity to interact until a qualified trainer is involved. Zero interaction between child and dog.
This is not a dog issue; we are not dealing with a "vicious" dog. We are dealing with a dog who has received no structure/leadership to teach him how to behave in this human pack, and who has recevied painful, inappropriate corrections for doing what he felt he had to do to control his environment. These corrections caused him to associate pain/confusion with the other innocent individual - the child, causing his aggression to escalate toward the child.
It might be easy to assume that by correcting this dog, he would understand to not bite the child again. However, for a dog who does not understand his place in the pack and who has been left to figure this out on his own, corrections for doing what is coming naturally to him is only making the situation worse.
Is this an accurate assessment of what has been discussed so far?
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#318950 - 02/26/2011 09:35 PM |
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... (one would need to be careful in making sure the trainer is skilled with this type of situation.) ... In addition, the dog and child should have no opportunity to interact until a qualified trainer is involved. Zero interaction between child and dog. ... This is not a dog issue; we are not dealing with a "vicious" dog. We are dealing with a dog who has received no structure/leadership to teach him how to behave in this human pack, and who has recevied painful, inappropriate corrections for doing what he felt he had to do to control his environment. These corrections caused him to associate pain/confusion with the other innocent individual - the child, causing his aggression to escalate toward the child ... for a dog who does not understand his place in the pack and who has been left to figure this out on his own, corrections for doing what is coming naturally to him is only making the situation worse. ... Is this an accurate assessment of what has been discussed so far?
IMO, yes.
As Ed said, the issue is not about correcting this dog out of what he is doing -- it's about molding the dog into what is acceptable behavior in his home. That's the job we take on when we take ownership and responsibility for the dog.
There was no evidence (IMHO) that the owner would be able to deal with the now badly aggravated issues without professional help. Or, as others suggested, rehoming the dog immediately.
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#318967 - 02/27/2011 12:18 AM |
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The first step that I always take with this kind of situation is to ask:
"Is this a training problem, or a management problem?" -answering that in itself is a big first step.
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Will Rambeau ]
#318983 - 02/27/2011 06:58 AM |
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The first step that I always take with this kind of situation is to ask:
"Is this a training problem, or a management problem?" -answering that in itself is a big first step.
This makes perfect sense and I'd trust you to make that determination in a nano-second... I'm just not sure how many of the average pet owners could make an honest assessment this requires... All too often we see folks go about management issues as if they bought a defective dog... not that they are mismanaging or not training correctly.
Question: How would a novice trainer determine "It might be a training issue if xxxxxxxxxxxx is happening" and "It might be a management issue if xxxxxxxxxxxxxx"?
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Re: Starting Over with Aggression Problem
[Re: Barbara Schuler ]
#318984 - 02/27/2011 07:22 AM |
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Barbara, that is a great question. I look forward to the answer!
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