OP, you need to PM Connie for a personal prescription! Following Connie's recommendation, my monster is metamorphosing into "Wonder Dog". I couldn't BE more encouraged.
Don't lose heart yet.

 Quote: betty landercasp

OP, you need to PM Connie for a personal prescription! Following Connie's recommendation, my monster is metamorphosing into "Wonder Dog". I couldn't BE more encouraged.
Don't lose heart yet.

(Thank you Betty, BTW, but you did the work. You actually listened and read and then you did the work. You should take a ton of credit to yourself. I've never advised anyone who took it to heart the way you did and did every single step regardless of your own frustration and anxiety.)



I know that we can help on the board.


Here is a red flag:

"Before we found this site we did what I would do with any other dog-removed her food if she was aggressive to us passing by, (fed her when she did not get pissed at us), removed her toys if she was possessive."

I leave the dog alone with the food. Period. I don't test the new dog (only been there two months) with "walking by" or handling the food after I give it or allowing anyone or any other dog to look at it/her and threaten her food security. I want the dog to perceive that what I give to her isn't something that might then be taken back or require guarding. IMO, this is a perception that takes time to be solid. There will come a day when the dog is not food anxious, and IMO, it will come because you did not screw around with her food after the simple NILIF and setting it down and leaving her with it. What a source of anxiety, to have the pack leaders "stand there after she gets her food." Why would I do that? She already knows that the food came from me. I don't need to prove anything more about the food.

Removing the toy "if she was possessive" ... what does this mean? I'd probably play a form of two-ball for a while, and pick my battles. Yes, the toys and the bed are mine, but why do I want to pick these and her food as battlegrounds?

Another way is to engage with the dog with the toy, of course, so the toy and myself are a package.

But at this point you aren't doing toy stuff, right?

So what is your "until-tongue-hanging-out" structured exercise? How is the dog drained of frustrated energy? I know this isn't what you logged in to talk about, but I promise you that a dog who is tired out and heading happily for her bed or crate is a far different animal from one who is on edge every minute from the electricity of unrelieved body/muscle tension.

Tired dog = big point on your side of the board.

Aaron posted about the NILIF until you see none of the unwanted behaviors. YES! And give the dog more physical release than you dream she needs.

And manage the environment rather than trying to do battle over it. (The toy fight, the bed fight, the food fight: these are all management items, for me, as opposed to battlegrounds.)

JMO, and I do understand that we are not there and can't see exactly what her body language is, etc., but these are very basic protocols that set you and the dog up for success.

I would also start to learn all I could about marker training. Talk about a battle-free training method! This could be a great project while the dog is in NILIF and "tired out" boot camp.

JMO! I know others will have better suggestions (and probably more breed-specific ideas), but these are what have worked for me (here and with "problem" shelter dogs).




eta
POV = point of view
eta = edited to add

Maria,
One of the things I missed in your posts is how much ob work do you and the dog work on together day to day?
OB is very important when dealing with a dog that's learned he can get his way by acting out aggressively.

It's going to be important you don't get or be scared (particularly with your medical condition) by this dog. Is there any way you can learn to expect a backlash and not be afraid of it when it comes?

Are the dog's triggers predictable? Or do they seem to go off out of nowhere for no reason?

Maria, Im typing on my phone which I hate to do, so this will be short till I get back home... Let me just say that if you set your mind to helping and or training this dog... You can. Your medical situation wont prevent you from doing so if your mind is in the right spot. You,ve come to the right place to get the advice you'll need.

Maria, another "ETA" is that I don't want to make light at all of the handler aggression.

It's just that I don't yet see you stacking the deck in your favor with very basic management. Tired dog, management of the environment, picking your battles -- these are the starting point beyond which there's not much point in going (IMO) until they are all solidly in place.

Brad: Thank you. She is a pretty girl indeed.

Roland: Out of context, it sounds like I am the monster. Yes, she is dominant but VERY friendly with strangers. I don't call her "creature" out of anger. Yes, her owners did mess her up pretty bad. But still, yes, she for some reason loves little kids (not to eat:-). Every time she sees one she starts looking at me for approval if I could let her go play, she always wags her tail and is not trying to assume a dominant posture when she sees one. She also is not interested in them because of prey drive-she simply seems to like little kids. We put a muzzle on her awhile ago and let little kids pet her, she was very friendly with them, no aggression or anything like that. She seems to be aloof around older children , though. Not that we ever will test her on this.

She barely feels my corrections because my wrists are weak (because of my illness). When I muster all my strength and really try it, she listens. It is hard for me, though. One decent correction works wonders with her, and much better than constant nagging, which I do not do with her-it's counterproductive.

Barbara: You have FOUR Akitas????? Oh my bloody god. Wow.

 Quote:

Ideally, you want to begin training that dog to "do" what you need him/her to do, not have to "undo" behaviors and habits formed early on.

I agree. Too late for us, though. We did not get her for her beauty or for her pedigree or out of pity. She was super friendly and was running to us so fast, you could almost see her little feet smoking:-). She also started playing fetch with me-something her owner said she never agreed to do with her. I fully agree regarding service dogs-she does not have the right behaviour for it, but I hope she some day will have the right behaviour to be a polite pet for me.
Before LB site, we alpha-rolled her pretty often for pack issues, also poked her in the neck with cupped hand kinda like Cesar does. It does work, but it is a dangerous practice and we discontinued it. After we got her a crate and a prong collar for walks and training, we didn't have to roll her again. Well, besides the time when she tried to be mean to me and I had to react somehow.

Lauren: Yes, she is dominant. And pushy. :-) She is testing us as she matures, I agree, but she exhibits all the traits of a dominant animal. She chased us off our own bed when we just got her, with snarls and attempts to bite-and we didn't even allow her to be there in the first place. She attacked us over her food bowl, she almost ripped me a new one after I told her to quit chewing her new 60-dollar bed.. she was possessive over her toys (we removed all of the objects that created a problem immediately, and started to hand feed her which worked. (now she eats in her crate). We don't have any confrontations with her right now, as she is going thru the groundwork, but her body language is NOT right at all times-she periodically puffs up on me and I do correct it (if its on the walk obviously). I am the one working with her now.
I am not surprised that she is like this, she was neglected for days in her previous household and then spoiled rotten when they remembered about her, had no exercise, no structure. She sat in the backyard and barked madly at things (i never heard her bark at all with us). She did bite them as we know now..they concealed it. She was not really protecting the toy with me, too-it was a reaction to me attempting to correct her for grabbing it when she was supposed to lay down. Actually, all i did was pick up the lead to be honest.

I was giving her so much exercise that she was barely walking home. We went on 2 hour long walks daily, and that is just ONE walk. Right now, I am a bit confused because some people told me that I should just take her on potty breaks these few weeks, Ed's video says a couple of 30-minute walks plus potty breaks would be nice but no distractions, and here some folks say I should walk her for hours like I did before the groundwork. Confusing. Thank you very much for support though,yes, I am trying as hard as I can to be calm and assertive with her.

Hilarie: we are in San Francisco! We are pretty broke, though. But I would love to consult someone even if it's just a couple of times. We found someone called MIke Wombacher (seems to be a good trainer, not very tree-hugger style.) But I think he trains more than deals with behaviour issues.

Connie: We can't throw in the towel. Shelter will not adopt her out. Giving up means pretty much death for her, and she IS potentially a good dog, just misguided. :-( We have to work with her. I am not complaining at all, I have to battle deforming illness every day, so I know that things can be a lot harder. I actually don't mind a "project" animal as I have time, daily. But I also cannot "change" the way I feel-only time does that for me.

We are working, and continuing with the groundwork for now. Good that most people said to go on. I think I probably need to say a couple of things that changed for the better since she lived with us. She has learned "Leave it" and "Come". She immediately leaves things alone when told to (no trash digging, etc. anymore. She is completely house-trained now (she peed everywhere when we got her at almost 9 months). She is crate-trained (that was hard). She heels very well (she was not trained in it at all). She has no dog aggression any longer. Instead of rolling her, I taught her an 'Over" command with short belly rubs and she eagerly flips over on command now, it's not a bad thing for her anymore at all. I worked with her to stop her fear of vacuum cleaner, buses and bathtubs and now she can lie down next to a running vacuum-cleaner and eagerly climbs into our bathtub (she knows she will get cool water on her chest and back and some scratches.), plus calmly rides a bus with us in a muzzle. She has no aggression or protest when I groom her (it was very challenging before).

That is, not during groundwork, obviously. None of it is happening now.
Thank you everybody:-)

" I am a bit confused because some people told me that I should just take her on potty breaks these few weeks, Ed's video says a couple of 30-minute walks plus potty breaks would be nice but no distractions, and here some folks say I should walk her for hours like I did before the groundwork."

Draining excess energy (OMO) trumps almost everything.

Marching along briskly with the dog in march mode (with releases to pee where I choose) can be pretty groundworky.

This is where I'm marching along too, pretty aloof!




QUOTING ED in a GW article: So during these first few weeks I take care of the dog by feeding him, giving him water and exercise but I don’t act all GUSSSSHY over him. When I take him for a walk I don’t play with him-- I simply walk him and put him away. ... The dog senses an aloof attitude from me. Dogs know that pack leaders are aloof. ... Becoming a pack leader involves adopting the attitude of a pack leader. It does not involve aggression towards a dog ... They can sense a leader. They don’t need leash corrections to consider their owner a pack leader. In fact inappropriate corrections often result in a dog looking at the offender with contempt rather than respect. ...

The solution to almost all behavioral problems lies within changes owners need to make in the way they live with their dogs. ... I don’t need to give one correction during this entire time period for the dog to understand that I am the person who controls his life. ...

During this initial period I never push myself on a new adult dog. In fact, I go out of my way to act aloof to the dog. I make the dog feel like I don’t care about him. I act like taking him outside is a job and I would rather be in Florida or anywhere other than spending time with him. My goal is to teach him that he has to "earn my affection and respect." ...

A very important part of the solution to almost all behavior problems is an appropriate exercise program. So with this said exercise needs to be an important part of every ground work program. ... Owners that have adult dogs with a ton of energy can often use a weighted dog vest when they walk their dogs. These vests give them more bang for their buck when they take a walk. ...

I never put food down and then fool with the bowl when the dog is eating. I get emails from people who think that taking food away or putting my hand in the food bowl shows the dog that you are the Alpha. These people are dead wrong. It shows the dog that they are an incompetent pack leader and it destroys your bond. ... There is nothing wrong with making a dog sit or lay down (if they know the command) before giving them their food. There is also nothing wrong with your eating before the dog eats. But harassing the dog after giving him his food only stresses the dog and hurts your relationship. ...

from
http://leerburg.com/groundwork.htm


BTW, you have done a LOT in two months! Please stop going backward at this point, though!

Maria, I don't have nearly as much knowledge as the folks here already helping you, I just want to say GOOD JOB for sticking this out.

You've found a web forum where you can get the experienced help you need, and you seem to have an open mind. You'll get to where you want to be with Yumeko in time. Be patient.

Oh, regarding food . She is GREAT when I am with her , I can hold the bowl or add to it, I can hand feed her, she is very calm, happy, likes when i put more food in her bowl. I taught her that over the whole month. She is also good with my husband around food.
She only started exhibiting food issues again AFTER we started to leave her alone in the crate to eat. Yes, I know, weird, but true. it's like a socializing thing for her. I really like when she is with me and we do it together. I eat first, then feed her. She never tried anything -not even got tense-until this whole "leave her alone in the cage and go away" stuff started.

It took me so much work to get there, I don't want her to go "feral" in that crate with her food. I also NEVER took away her bowl. It's a no-no. We had issues in the beginning when she would get aggressive around food bowl and we had to fight her and remove the bowl. I am sorry, I do not tolerate my own dog not letting me into the room where she eats the food that I bought. Even if she is in the crate. But she never actually got angry at us around food -just a bit tense, and ONLY in her crate. She is totally cool if she eats outside it and I feed her. It's strange.
"Removing the toy if she was possessive" means that she was possessive over a couple of her old toys and she never saw them again. Period. ever. Then I taught her "leave it". She is VERY good with it. I can place a piece of tasty food on her paw when she is in a down-stay, tell her to "leave it" and walk far away (in the house) and she won't touch it, until I say "Yes". Same with toys. We practiced it every day, many times, with rewards (she gets to hold the toy or fetch it if she does well, or gets a treat). All before of course we went into the groundwork.


Exercise. We walk with a backpack (not too heavy yet, she is young). I cannot jog, but she is too young for it anyway. When she'll be able to, my husband is a great candidate. We walk a lot. I kind of wanted a dog so I could be outside more. We used to go to the park, walk towards the beach and back, get on a bus and go downtown. But she is still trying to drag me to play with the dogs and I have to correct her, (thank god for the prong), and of course distractions are out there (birdies and squirrels). In general, she is VERY tired when i get her home. Tongue out, hot, climbs into the crate and sleeps We used to visit every water fountain in the park, and then I would let her get into the creek and she will wade forever, playing with water. Was cute. In general, she is a much calmer dog than I had before. Meticulous, not hyper.

We ain't doing toy stuff, oh no. Not now!

 Quote:

(The toy fight, the bed fight, the food fight: these are all management items, for me, as opposed to battlegrounds.)

-Oh, I have the timeline screwed up. that was when we just got her. She had a recent slip-off (with her correcting me) and none of that other stuff.

Yes! We marker-train . Just without clickers. We know and like it. I charged the "Yes!" and she does many new things now. It really is an incredible way to train, wish i knew it earlier with my other dogs.

But right now WE ARE NOT DOING ANY OF THIS, she is going thru the "isolation" part.

Thank you Connie, it's a really great response. I am surprised we got noticed at all...everybody works, I saw a bunch of posts around here sit unanswered for awhile...we got lucky.

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

... I just want to say GOOD JOB for sticking this out.

I do, too!