Re: Guilty!
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#322616 - 03/18/2011 02:10 PM |
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I hear this all the time. I hear people say all the time "He knows it was bad. He feels guilty."
No and no.
The dog "knows" that certain expressions or body language on the human's part bode ill for the dog.
The dog may also "know" that when the human comes home, random punishment and anger may rain onto the dog, and the dog's only warning is a shout of surprise/anger/dismay.
The dog "knows" that his human tends to see or pick up completely mysterious items and then smack, yell at, or pen the dog.
As for finding a bag of dog treats and eating them, why would a dog feel "guilty" (even if dogs had "guilt" as a canine emotion) for that?
It's like people who humanize potty accidents. (Worse than humanize, because what helpless human feels "guilty" for having to relieve himself and having no choice as to where?)
"He knows it's bad and he feels guilty" .... really? He knows the human randomly shouts, hits, and continues to express rage for extended periods for no reason the dog can possibly understand. Maybe it frequently centers around a puddle or a pile, but how in the world does this translate for the dog to "I should have found a way to go outdoors and not make that puddle right there"?
I see a dog who is subjected to completely mysterious stress or punishment from their human, and a human who has failed to manage the environment to set up the dog to act in a way the human prefers.
Imagine leaving a bag of treats available and then going through that big performance of stressing the dogs because one or more of them ate them.
Every time I hear "feels guilty" with regard to a dog, it strikes me the same way the word "respect" and the phrases "works for me, not for a reward" strike me.
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#322617 - 03/18/2011 02:11 PM |
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Ok, I see. I was attributing a human trait to my dog.
I just read up on a study and they said exactly what you all are saying. That they are reacting to our tone or are reading our displeasure for what they did.
It sure looks like guilt, but in fact it is not.
It's not the first time I have made this mistake....
anthropomorphizing.
Thanks for setting me straight.
ETA, Cesar Milan I am not.
Joyce Salazar
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#322618 - 03/18/2011 02:18 PM |
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That raised lip and barred teeth did not look good. Or guilty. It would have been more fair to stop badgering the dogs and leave them alone.
The guy just cannot stop: "Did you do it? Did you do it? " like a broken record. No, I did it. Now go jump into the car, drive to the store and get more treats, dummy! Something better, this time.
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Ana Kozlowsky ]
#322629 - 03/18/2011 03:03 PM |
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The bared teeth didn't bother me, because in combination with the other body language it felt more like a 'smile' thing than an aggressive baring of teeth.
The dogs I've had that would smile (lots of Greyhounds do it) do it as sort of an excitement/greeting/appeasement thing (like instead of or in conjunction with submissive urination), and there is no aggression behind it at all. In this dog's case it seemed to easily fall into that category.
It's always reminded me a bit of a young horse chattering his teeth at me.
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Kristel Smart ]
#322633 - 03/18/2011 03:15 PM |
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Don't feel bad, Joyce. Anthropomorphizing* it easy to do! The dogs that live in your house have evolved over thousands of years just for the purpose of being able to read you. They can even mimic some expressions!
So what do you guys think of a dog being sneaky? Possible?
Connie, my roomate ate all of my ice cream sometime early this morning. Even she didn't have that look!
What do you think, rolled up newspaper or set her up with a can of pennies?
*but not easy to spell. sorry if I butchered it
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Lauren Jeffery ]
#322635 - 03/18/2011 03:21 PM |
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Would someone please put that poor dog on a diet?
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#322636 - 03/18/2011 03:24 PM |
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He probably was, and that is why he got in to those cat treats!
Joyce Salazar
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Joyce Salazar ]
#322637 - 03/18/2011 03:25 PM |
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You know the really screwed up part?
He put the dogs in stays so he could antagonize them to make a video.
It's a wonder dogs don't just kill us all.
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Aaron Myracle ]
#322638 - 03/18/2011 03:27 PM |
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Yeah, you're right. I am starting to feel this wasn't such a cute video after all...
Joyce Salazar
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Re: Guilty!
[Re: Joyce Salazar ]
#322639 - 03/18/2011 03:31 PM |
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So, all of this has me thinking about what kinds of emotions do dogs actually feel?
It seems like they are entirely capable of happiness, sadness, and fear. What others are there. I want to make sure that I don't attribute any more anthropomorphic feelings towards dogs, that they simply don't have.
Joyce Salazar
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