Cody's situation has not changed. I am planning for when we begin to give him a novel source of protein. I am also considering emu. Yes, we did notice that duck is more expensive and goose is too. Emu doesn't seem to be as expensive and I looked up the nutritional value it is outstanding! High vitamins and minerals. High in iron as well. So, we will see.

Cody is ok, today he gets his other shot of b12. I am trying to work on helping him or supporting him with the best nutrition I can.

sharon

 Quote: sharon empson

Cody's situation has not changed. I am planning for when we begin to give him a novel source of protein.

For what?

You've never posted a food allergy symptom.

Do you know what they are, in a dog? Number one, the big biggy, is itchy skin. The skin is where loads of histamine receptors are in dogs. Typically, the worst itching is on the face, feet, ears, front shins, armpits, and butt area. The second biggy is recurring or persistent ear infections. There are other symptoms too, but they mostly relate to or derive from these two classic biggies.

To identify a food allergy (which he has no symptoms of, or at least none posted), a limited ingredient diet of novel foods* is fed. The "proof" of this elimination diet is when the symptoms stop after some weeks on just this food. Then the system is challenged with item by item of the normal diet, slowly and carefully, until the offender is identified, and it's removed permanently from the diet.

So number one, "Cody's situation has not changed." This means he has no food allergy symptoms (he never did, but this would also mean he has no food intolerance/sensitivity symptoms, because he had only the isolated GI event). So an elimination diet of limited novel foods (no, it's not just any old diet substituting duck or emu for the chicken) -- what could it possibly prove? That he's not throwing up? But he's not throwing up now!

I honestly believe that little bits of unrelated protocols are getting mixed up here, willy nilly and hit-or-miss.

An elimination diet is a long-term strict diet, very limited. To embark on one when there are no present symptoms does not make any sense whatsoever. It can't prove anything without having the ability to trigger the cessation of present symptoms (which don't presently exist).


*Novel to the individual dog; allergies develop over repeated exposure, which is why novel - new- ingredients are needed for the food trial


JMO. Not a health professional.

Connie is right- she's not a health professional- but that is EXACTLY what ALL allergist 's I've ever spoken with will recommend when they are presented with an animal that has the symptoms of a food allergy. (itchy, hair loss, ear infections...I wont go into detail because she did)

If Cody is no longer vomiting, or having any other health problems, you may be fretting, and spending unnecessary money for no real reason. I'd take all the records you've got from that vet, and lack of diagnosis, and get a second opinion. It sure seems like you've been taken for a run around the block.

Going out of one's way to feed novel proteins when they are not needed would also remove them from the list of potential novels if a real elimination trial were needed in the future. Feeding kangaroo ostrich and emu now may leave you searching for turtle, racoon or anteater meat in the future. FWIW.

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

.....and lack of diagnosis.....

But what diagnosis should anybody expect from a couple bile vomits and a day or two of lethargy?

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

Connie is right- she's not a health professional- but that is EXACTLY what ALL allergist 's I've ever spoken with will recommend when they are presented with an animal that has the symptoms of a food allergy. (itchy, hair loss, ear infections...I wont go into detail because she did)

And he has none of the symptoms of a food allergy.

 Quote: Tracy Collins

Going out of one's way to feed novel proteins when they are not needed would also remove them from the list of potential novels if a real elimination trial were needed in the future. Feeding kangaroo ostrich and emu now may leave you searching for turtle, racoon or anteater meat in the future. FWIW.

100% correct. And not just when they are needed, but when they are fed without the extremely strict protocol of a food trial (elimination diet).

Finding and feeding duck (if it is now novel to this individual dog) when there are no allergy symptoms to watch recede in order to prove that it was indeed a food allergy completely wastes -- throws away -- a novel protein, in case of a true elimination diet ever being needed.

 Quote: Michael_Wise

 Quote: Kelly Byrd

.....and lack of diagnosis.....

But what diagnosis should anybody expect from a couple bile vomits and a day or two of lethargy?

Exactly my point. No diagnosis- dog is back to normal with some B-12. Why change what is working?

I think they were saying that because they remembered cody is allergic to wheat. at that time way back when I got him, he did have itchy skin and hair loss and I told them about it when he had that incident last year and they were trying to figure it out.

Yea, I see what you are saying and we have asked that question to ourselves. I think they are ....really I have no idea what the specialists are doing. I have expressed these very views to them and they are just restating what they have already stated a million times. I really think it has to do with the raw diet, they are hooked on that and want it changed the can't see past it. I am guessing, my husband and I can't really figure them out. but we are just watching cody and taking care of things ourselves. It started out that if cody did not get better we would try the novel protein, but now they want to try it anyway.

Yes, we looked up the novel proteins, and man as I said before duck and goose the price is to the moon! He won't be getting that.

That is a good point you made that if I use up these novel protein choices now, later what will I do. maybe serve vet...ha!~ just kidding.

Yes, we are just going to slowly, very slowly introducing cody back to the food he had, first cooked and bland then start slowly adding things.

I did like what i saw about the emu though. Tons of vitamins and minerals, more so than other meats and low in fat. It might be a good thing to feed my pups once and awhile.
Its about 1.00 more a pound than lean grass fed beef, which is $3.00lb.

believe me I appreciate all your help. You have been a calming, sensible voice in all this turmoil. thank you sharon

yes, I will be looking for another vet soon...well actually I am in the process now.
The specialists are the only ones in our area...so, man in an emergency you have to go there. It has been frustrating. I remember the first time cody was there, they tried their best to treat him and they did a good job for the most part, their big problem was communication. I thought it had improved when I saw the first specialist, she seemed level headed and really tried to figure it out. Then I was passed to a new specialist (because they do not work there every day and kinda rotate days or couple of days.) he seemed ok, but you could tell he had not looked at cody's file, and he just said the basic stuff I had already heard. So, anyway, I am letting it die a natural death and taking cody somewhere else soon. He seems to do better with women vets and techs too. men vets get him really afraid and barking. So, we'll see what happens. yep, the run around the block!
Thanks for caring and responding to this situation. It has been even harder on us since we no longer have our vet we had for 20 years that we really appreciated and trusted.
sharon

 Quote: Sharon Empson

I think they are ....really I have no idea what the specialists are doing. /// It started out that if cody did not get better we would try the novel protein, but now they want to try it anyway.

Is Cody still under the care of any of these Emergency docs, or was he discharged? Was there a follow-up visit or something? Are there more follow-up vet appointments scheduled for him?

Sorry, I'm trying to keep up.

Just so all of us here who care about Cody are up to date, can you confirm:

Cody is no longer on any medications, right?

Cody is still eating a bland chicken and rice diet, right?

He hasn't vomited any more since the first episode that sent you to the vet?

He acts normally and is peeing and pooping normally for him?

No new symptoms have come up that worry you? (itching or anything else?)

No more early morning bile puke since you started the late night snack, right? You're still doing that?

Has he lost weight that you can tell?

Sorry to be so full of questions. Just want to make sure I understand his current condition.