Connie Sutherland wrote 03/31/2011 04:45 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Mary K.Pope ] #324761 - 03/31/2011 04:45 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: mary k.pope I may be wrong but, I thought that garlic could be toxic to dogs. You are not wrong. The whole topic (the allium family, of which onions are much more dangerous than garlic, but garlic is still potentially toxic to dogs in significant or cumulative amountst) can be found in multiple threads here using garlic as the search term. http://www.suite101.com/content/onions-garlic-toxic-to-cats-and-dogs-a196013 http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1368&S=2 http://www.petalia.com.au/templates/storytemplate_process.cfm?specie=dogs&story_no=257#ct-4 http://www.vetinfo.com/dtoxin.html Scroll to "Onion and Garlic Toxicity in Dogs And Cats" http://www.entirelypets.com/toxicfoods.html Scroll to "Onions and garlic" http://leerburg.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/204101/page/0/fpart/1 ASPCA: - Avocado - Chocolate - Coffee - Macadamia nuts - Onions - Raisins and grapes - Salt - Yeast dough - Garlic
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Lynne Barrows wrote 03/31/2011 06:17 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Tracy Collins ] #324774 - 03/31/2011 06:17 PM
Lynne Barrows Webboard User Reg: 09-22-2007 Posts: 2531 Loc: S. Florida Offline	Quote: Tracy Collins  Quote: Michael_Wise  Quote: Tracy Collins Since I understand your new young dog has never been to the vet, there would be no antibodies to titer. How come? My understanding is that antibodies are present as a reaction to either exposure to a natural disease or the vaccination for it. That's how vaccines work--they expose the body to a tiny dose of the disease antigen (or a dead version of it.) This is right, but it's very likely that a 10 month old pup has been exposed already to both viruses...and has developed antibodies..
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Stephanie Bishop wrote 03/31/2011 07:29 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Lynne Barrows ] #324782 - 03/31/2011 07:29 PM
Stephanie Bishop Webboard User Reg: 03-01-2011 Posts: 156 Loc: tx Offline
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/31/2011 08:01 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Lynne Barrows ] #324796 - 03/31/2011 08:01 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	I was reading something called "Protective levels of canine distemper virus antibody in an urban dog population using plaque reduction neutralization test" that all I have is the Word doc and not a link ... it's from Onderstepoort Journal of Veterinary Research, 71:227–230 (2004), and it's on research in Nigeria, in a low-distemper city. The gist of one titer result was that only 4 out of 23 adult urban dogs who had vaccination history titered at less than what they called minimum protective level but 10 of the 27 no-vax dogs did. This is not what the research was looking at (they were looking at the longevity of the protection in vax dogs), but it seems to indicate (I guess a little loosely) that a pretty high percentage of no-vax city dogs in at least some parts of the world would titer at > the minimum protective level. Christie Keith says at http://www.caberfeidh.com/CanineTiters.htm : So, should you test your dog’s titers? Probably not. Nearly all previously vaccinated adult dogs are immune to parvovirus and distemper, and the titer test isn’t going to give you any useful information. You cannot make an immune dog “more immune” to a virus with additional vaccination, as the previous immunity will wipe out the virus in the vaccine. There will be no increase in immunity and no benefit to the dog. (Schultz, Ronald D., "Current and future canine and feline vaccination programs", Veterinary Medicine, March 1998.) If a titer test will give you peace of mind, or help you make a vaccination decision about a puppy or a dog of unknown vaccine history, then it’s worth considering." and at http://www.caberfeidh.com/Titers.htm : So what does a low or zero titer tell you? Nothing much. A high titer is strongly correlated with either recent infection or good immunity, but the opposite isn't true. You can use a titer test about two weeks after vaccination to determine if the vaccination was effective in stimulating an immune response (in other words, if the animal was successfully immunized from the vaccine), but testing that same animal's titer years down the road doesn't really tell you anything new. The only other uses for titer tests in my opinion are to check immunization status on dogs with an unknown history, to provide documentation for legal purposes such as travel, or licensing in areas that accept rabies titers in lieu of rabies vaccination, to satisfy curiosity, or to provide peace of mind for pet owners. However, for every person who has his or her mind relieved by finding his or her dog "has a titer" to a disease they were worried about, there is someone else who now thinks his or her dog or cat is "unprotected" against a disease to which they are most likely really immune. So yes, the no-vax-history dog could titer-test with good immunity.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/31/2011 08:02 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Stephanie Bishop ] #324797 - 03/31/2011 08:02 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Quote: stephanie bishop Garlic..it's a BIG debate in the dog world..but here is a few other fun facts about it for your dogs.Not saying anyone has to use it..but i enjoy the benifits...so many to list. I enjoy the benefits, too. It doesn't present the same danger to humans.  Quote: Garlic, the Facts, by Lisa S. Newman, ND, Ph.D. ... "When it comes to your pet's health, do you want to follow facts or fears? Unfortunately, garlic has come under attack. .... " Lisa S. Newman, ND, Ph.D. happens to sell garlic supplements. Her company (she is the founder) also sells canned dog food. And she has written several treatises against raw feeding, including "Cautions Against Raw Food Diets." I'm not saying she's necessarily biased, but as I mentioned in the LB discussion link above, I would rather not rely on the seller of the item for all my information about its safety. Some sources do conclude that a dog would probably have to eat a jar or peeled diced cloves or a whole head of cloves. Others say that in some dogs, it does not excrete readily and can accumulate. "Can, might, unknown, individual" ..... I'd rather skip the item, myself.
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Lauren Jeffery wrote 03/31/2011 08:14 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Connie Sutherland ] #324801 - 03/31/2011 08:14 PM
Lauren Jeffery Webboard User Reg: 01-16-2010 Posts: 1389 Loc: Offline	Connie, thanks for posting about the titers. Its interesting information. We have a vet visit coming up, and I was debating if a titer was even necessary.
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Connie Sutherland wrote 03/31/2011 08:27 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Lauren Jeffery ] #324804 - 03/31/2011 08:27 PM
Connie Sutherland Moderator Reg: 07-13-2005 Posts: 31571 Loc: North-Central coast of California Offline	Every time I read about titer testing, I have to re-read the basics about which way is close to meaningless: the "good" result or the "bad" result. lol Every time, It's Keith's site that sets me straight. It's loaded with info: http://www.caberfeidh.com/Revax.htm http://www.caberfeidh.com/PuppyVax.htm
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Betty Landercasp wrote 03/31/2011 09:13 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Tracy Collins ] #324823 - 03/31/2011 09:13 PM
Betty Landercasp Webboard User Reg: 11-30-2009 Posts: 3724 Loc: minnesota Offline	The dog may have a titer, and if you want to check for it, that's good medicine. Peoples opinions are based on their own experiences + what they've been taught. My first dog, a mutt from the ASPCA in NYC, died of canine distemper. I was 11. My parents spared no expense-she suffered horribly, took a long time to die. I also am a retired veterinarian, so I'm brainwashed by my education to boot. I will always vaccinate my dogs, based on the Dodds protocol. You must make your own decision. http://s922.photobucket.com/albums/ad67/Grasvaly/
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Melissa Hoyer wrote 03/31/2011 09:19 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Betty Landercasp ] #324830 - 03/31/2011 09:19 PM
Melissa Hoyer Webboard User Reg: 05-09-2005 Posts: 1340 Loc: SE Michigan Offline	I also follow the Dodds protocol. With this dog, I would start with a rabies vax since it is required by law, waiting on the rest (whichever you decide to give).
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Mary K.Pope wrote 03/31/2011 10:42 PM Re: vaccinating (or not) an unvaccinated ten month old [Re: Betty Landercasp ] #324873 - 03/31/2011 10:42 PM
Mary K.Pope Webboard User Reg: 08-24-2005 Posts: 361 Loc: Northern California Offline	My MD's fully vaccinated GSD puppy contracted canine distemper. Fortunately, she was treated quickly and recovered mostly (she has some residual trouble walking). This is a very nasty disease.
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